Botox

[botoxwales]

You have hit the nail on the head - as such you are governed by the NMC and are accountable as such.

The NMC will be enforcing this, make no mistake. There is a meeting on 20th May, following on from this the NMC will be further endorsing the position. Any nurse reported for injecting prescriptive medicines for cosmetic purposes on the back of a remote prescrition will be held to account and consequently lose their registration. The newly formed IHAS will be launching a nationwide awareness campaign from June - furthermore, any practice/practitioner who undertakes remote prescribing will not be able to register. It is interesting to also note that the copies and pasted section from the MHRA (outdated) page omitted the annex A regarding remote prescribing FOR COSMETIC INJECTABLES.

Another point worth mentioning - any practitioners reciving supplies from aesthetic pharmacies (medfx, church house etc etc) from the direction of a remote prescription will no longer be able to do so - as these pharmacies will no longer supply direct to the practioner under a remote. The only way a nurse will be able to receive supplies is as an independant prescriber (NIP) following receipt of their own prescription. Other pharmacies will follow suit following on from the NMC meeting on 20th May.

So to sum up - changes are afoot, for the better and WILL be enforced. More importantly, the public are going to have a lot more awareness in the near future.

I hear rumours that theres going to cosmetic injectables only nurse prescriber course made available? Sort of like a cut down version of the full nurse prescriber course. Any truth in this?

 

[botoxwales]

You have hit the nail on the head - as such you are governed by the NMC and are accountable as such.

The NMC will be enforcing this, make no mistake. There is a meeting on 20th May, following on from this the NMC will be further endorsing the position. Any nurse reported for injecting prescriptive medicines for cosmetic purposes on the back of a remote prescrition will be held to account and consequently lose their registration. The newly formed IHAS will be launching a nationwide awareness campaign from June - furthermore, any practice/practitioner who undertakes remote prescribing will not be able to register. It is interesting to also note that the copies and pasted section from the MHRA (outdated) page omitted the annex A regarding remote prescribing FOR COSMETIC INJECTABLES.

Another point worth mentioning - any practitioners reciving supplies from aesthetic pharmacies (medfx, church house etc etc) from the direction of a remote prescription will no longer be able to do so - as these pharmacies will no longer supply direct to the practioner under a remote. The only way a nurse will be able to receive supplies is as an independant prescriber (NIP) following receipt of their own prescription. Other pharmacies will follow suit following on from the NMC meeting on 20th May.

So to sum up - changes are afoot, for the better and WILL be enforced. More importantly, the public are going to have a lot more awareness in the near future.

Also, has anything actually been released yet ?

 

[daisyl]

cut down version of nurse prescribing? - NO truth whatsoever! If you really understood the the issues regarding botox as a prescription only medicine you would not be asking this question, which really does concern me - seriously, I do not say that to sound 'clever' but you really do not have a sound grasp of the issues. As I have clarified to you - you offer botox paties, operate remote prescribing, and advertise botox - this is blatant from your website and on all levels here this is very bad practice and against MHRA regulations and NMC rulings. Following on from my meeting with the prescribing lead advisor from the NMC last week - Rebecca Cheatle - I can confirm it is actually illegal for any nurse who is not a prescriber to administer botox under the direction of a remote prescription as it does not satisfy the standards for medicine management. To be clear - these are Standards - not guidelines - and and practitoner is accountable to these by law! Regardless of what others might say! Speak to Rebecca at the NMC who will confirm this. You also need to obtain a copy of the Standards - of which there are numerous standards which you must comply with. Regardless of what the MHRA and GMC say - as a nurse you are accountable to the NMC - Fact. Botox parties clearly fall outside of any standard! Now you may not like it, thats up to you. I have been in this industry long enough to actually know what I am talking about here - and at the end of the day the public deserve better.

 

[daisyl]

Also, has anything actually been released yet ?

You should know this! Its your job to!

 

[botoxwales]

cut down version of nurse prescribing? - NO truth whatsoever! If you really understood the the issues regarding botox as a prescription only medicine you would not be asking this question, which really does concern me - seriously, I do not say that to sound 'clever' but you really do not have a sound grasp of the issues. As I have clarified to you - you offer botox paties, operate remote prescribing, and advertise botox - this is blatant from your website and on all levels here this is very bad practice and against MHRA regulations and NMC rulings. Following on from my meeting with the prescribing lead advisor from the NMC last week - Rebecca Cheatle - I can confirm it is actually illegal for any nurse who is not a prescriber to administer botox under the direction of a remote prescription as it does not satisfy the standards for medicine management. To be clear - these are Standards - not guidelines - and and practitoner is accountable to these by law! Regardless of what others might say! Speak to Rebecca at the NMC who will confirm this. You also need to obtain a copy of the Standards - of which there are numerous standards which you must comply with. Regardless of what the MHRA and GMC say - as a nurse you are accountable to the NMC - Fact. Botox parties clearly fall outside of any standard! Now you may not like it, thats up to you. I have been in this industry long enough to actually know what I am talking about here - and at the end of the day the public deserve better.

Daisy,

You raise some interesting issues here. Yes, agreed nurse are accountable to the NMC.

You say you spoke with the NMC advisor last week. Fair enough but the document on the NMC website is dated 2008. This one - Injectable cosmetic treatments | Nursing and Midwifery Council

This document as I'm sure you will agree is a little vague. This is the information we have. This document says the prescriber must give a comprehensive assessment but doesnt say it has to be face-to-face.

I think its time the NMC and other bodies put this information that is obviously being discussed into the public domain for everyone to read. After all, I've been given advice to the contrary.

You can see what I mean, yeh? I'm sure you're telling the truth and we will take that info on board but we shouldnt really be taking advice from someone whos had a conversation with someone else. Looks like we've been bitten by that one before!

Like I said in my PM though, I'm very keen to make sure we're following the law. Botox parties will be going. I agree this doesnt look good in any case.

Seen the MHRA website guidelines (april 2010) so changes will be made to the website in due course. Looks like we better get a new domain name too.

I'm aware that there are tons of beauty therapists out there doing botox, with no medical training, no insurance etc. This is slightly different.

BTW - I'm not the aesthetics practitioner/nurse in the company just the business manager so my medical knowledge is nil!

 

[daisyl]

Daisy,

You raise some interesting issues here. Yes, agreed nurse are accountable to the NMC.

You say you spoke with the NMC advisor last week. Fair enough but the document on the NMC website is dated 2008. This one - Injectable cosmetic treatments | Nursing and Midwifery Council

This document as I'm sure you will agree is a little vague. This is the information we have. This document says the prescriber must give a comprehensive assessment but doesnt say it has to be face-to-face.

I think its time the NMC and other bodies put this information that is obviously being discussed into the public domain for everyone to read. After all, I've been given advice to the contrary.

You can see what I mean, yeh? I'm sure you're telling the truth and we will take that info on board but we shouldnt really be taking advice from someone whos had a conversation with someone else. Looks like we've been bitten by that one before!

Like I said in my PM though, I'm very keen to make sure we're following the law. Botox parties will be going. I agree this doesnt look good in any case.

Seen the MHRA website guidelines (april 2010) so changes will be made to the website in due course. Looks like we better get a new domain name too.

I'm aware that there are tons of beauty therapists out there doing botox, with no medical training, no insurance etc. This is slightly different.

BTW - I'm not the aesthetics practitioner/nurse in the company just the business manager so my medical knowledge is nil!

You need to obtain a copy of the Standards, like I said, this is a legal document which makes all the standards perfectly clear and as a medical practitioner (your partner), he/she should be aware of this - this is not word of mouth - this is a legal document obtainable from the NMC. YOu can go onto the NMC website and order one foc. There is also an updated advice sheet June 2009 on the NMC website which makes the situation quite clear. Ignorance is no defence, as is not reading and adhering to the Standards. The NMC have made the situation clear - it is up to the practitioner to apply the code. There have been numerous occasions the NMC have made the situation clear - at various conferences, RCN conferences, FACE, regular open events and of course their advice line. It is out there in the domain - it is up to the practitioner to apply it.

Glad to hear about the botox parties! Not good!

 

[spoilt]

I am an Independent Nurse Prescriber and I think you are right that this is essential if I was to make a career in cosmetic treatments. I really don't want to go down the avenue of botox parties and agree this is not professional and truly de-values the essence of all our hard training and qualifications.

I can now also see why patients/clients would not come flooding into salons for botox treatments, preferring a more clinical environment. For someone like myself wanting to start my own bussiness it seems a huge step to Medispa. Any suggestions on how I can get on the ladder whilst maintaining my professionalism?

Thanks

hi, im in teeside and lots of ladies here use botox. lots . i use an rgn who has her things prescribed by a surgeon . she is mobile and very busy. recomendations are like gold dust... x have a look at her page it has mobile priceson also www.charmaine.me

 

[botoxwales]

hi, im in teeside and lots of ladies here use botox. lots . i use an rgn who has her things prescribed by a surgeon . she is mobile and very busy. recomendations are like gold dust... x have a look at her page it has mobile priceson also www.charmaine.me

Hmmm. See comments above....

 

[smooth]

There is not going to be a shortened non medical prescribing course, there is a company out there who have added on aesthetic aspects to the NMP programme but they are charging a lot for it. You can go to any university to apply for the NMP course.

The NMC are the first ones to admit that there is a difference between remote prescriptions and remote consultations. I know plenty of nurses who will have a consultation with a potential client, arrange for the consultation to take place between the prescriber and the client. Then if everything is ok the prescription is written and dispensed. This is acceptable by the NMC as these nurses have checked. NHS Scotland do video consultations and the posts above are right in the fact that there is no legal requirement for consultations to be face to face as per MHRA. The NMC state that if the nurse has the option to contact the prescriber but doesn't this is against guidelines. However, if a comprehensive assessment takes place between the client and the prescriber that is fine for a non prescribing nurse to administer the treatment.

There are some nurses out there who do comply with legal requirements, guidelines and such but are not/nor do they ever wish to be a prescriber for whatever reason but they appear to have the backing of all relevant agencies. It would be prudent however, for all involved to keep checking with NMC and GMC to see if the situation changes over time.

The other issue in the industry is injectors having a vial of botox that has been prescribed for a patient and the remaining units used on another patient, this is illegal due to the prescription only medicine act 1968. There is actually a dentists in St Helens who openly advertise sharing a vial of botox with a friend to get it cheaper can you believe?

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