Pedicure or podiatry?

[weezie]

Just wanted to say I did CIBTAC and CIDESCO international beauty diploma training 9-5 every day for just over a year and had two three hour exams on the same day (morning and afternoon) and an extra electrolysis exam of 30 minutes. On top of this I had to write a dissertation, do 600 hours practical work on clients and take two theory exams of 1 hour each. It was hard work- I have a Bsc Psychology degree and did more study for my beauty exams!

Not all courses are easy now, I only took mine three years ago.

 

[liza smith]

hi weezie
i agree, not all of the beauty courses are easy now, but they have been condensed as if you wanted to do beauty therapy to level 3 then, it was full time 5 days aweek for 2 yrs. ie school terms. if your course was 12 months long, then it prob covered the same amount of curriculum.
im not saying condensing is a bad thing.
it is prob a better way to approach the industry, as now you can choose to do beauty to level 2, or to level 3, or holistic therapies, or nail treatments, or all of them.
we didnt have a choice, we had to do 2 yrs to level 3 incl. everything ( but unfortunately not nails!)
the only condensing you could do, was to do both level 3 in beauty and level 3 in hair and do it in 3 yrs, which is what i did.
it was hard going as there were evening classes aswell, but it was cool as it cut my course from 4 to 3 yrs.
that option is no longer avialable, because full time is now 3/3.5 days per wk, so you will spend 4 yrs if u choose to do both.
also, private courses then & now are condensed as the class numbers are very small, compared to college courses which are usually 20-30 pupils.
hopefully things progress and lots of things have, its just like the current arguement that tha A levels have got easier cos loads of students are getting all A grades.
at the end of the day, no matter what course or qualification you r studying for, if u gat a high grade or a good pass, you have achieved your goal and should b congratulated.

 

[pazzy]

When it comes to difficult courses - ours took the biccy. Along with the practicals and papers - we were the first students to have the assessments 'tried out' on. So on top of an already pressurised last few moths - we had a full book of assessments to complete. It was unfair and it was a joke.

Our group dropped like flies - and I questioned why I was putting myself through this and wished I went in for nursing. I nearly gave it up. Glad I didnt. But couldnt believe I got credits in my papers.

Liza you will remember studying the origin, insertion and actions of the muscles in the face!!! The lymphatic nightmare. The anodes and cathodes and the cations and anions. The exercises. The 6 week client study. Drawings of the heart, a lymph gland, and cross section of hair and layers of the skin. How upset I was to learn that they skim over those now - one work experience said they didnt even do it. How things change!!!:lol:

 

[Katelisa]

When it comes to difficult courses - ours took the biccy. Along with the practicals and papers - we were the first students to have the assessments 'tried out' on. So on top of an already pressurised last few moths - we had a full book of assessments to complete. It was unfair and it was a joke.

Our group dropped like flies - and I questioned why I was putting myself through this and wished I went in for nursing. I nearly gave it up. Glad I didnt. But couldnt believe I got credits in my papers.

Liza you will remember studying the origin, insertion and actions of the muscles in the face!!! The lymphatic nightmare. The anodes and cathodes and the cations and anions. The exercises. The 6 week client study. Drawings of the heart, a lymph gland, and cross section of hair and layers of the skin. How upset I was to learn that they skim over those now - one work experience said they didnt even do it. How things change!!!:lol:

I had to learn all of that. I did nvq level 3.

 

[liza smith]

it used to be the equivalent of level 2 that was the 1st yr. all facial anatomy should b covered, and electrical science for facial electrical, ie faradic, iontophorisis etc.
level 3 was the 2nd yr, and it was body anatomy for massage and electrical science for body electrical ie faradic etc.
im not certain if it is still the same.
there is defo not the same sylabus covered as it is now 3/3.5 days instead of 5 per week.
i think mayb the missing sylabus mayb aromatherapy and holistic therapies?
its a lot of hours to drop?
we also had art lessons, but i think that was connected to the hairdressing side?
also, the way its now set up is that the students are meant to do home study and salon placement to make up the hours.
trouble is, most younger students dont take this on board and often struggle to complete their assignments on time.
i would ve been useless with this set up, at that age, i wouldve not been disciplined enough to organise my schedule!
mayb some recently qualified students can shed some like on this?

 

[huberella]

mayb some of us have stronger stomachs than others, as i wouldnt see anything untoward with removing what is usualy a collection of dead skin cells and oil and moisture from under someones toenail.
im also a beauty therapist, & removing congestion is part of a good facial, so mayb, i just view this as the same.
if she hasnt had her feet done well for a whie, this problem has probably built up a bit.
if you can do her feet on a regular basis, they wil b much better.
as for mild fungal infections, it is just this trapped dead skin cells that keep the fungal infection going.
you would b doing her a massive favour by freeing her of it.
mayb its a point of debate, but...
in my opinion, keeping the toenails and feet free of excess dead skin etc, is the best servive you can do for a client.
i have had clients tell me that they go to a chiropidist to get rid of their hard skin, and only need their toenails done.
i explain that a luxury pedicure on a regular basis will completely rid them of hard skin on thier feet and keep their toes etc in tip top condition.
in my opinion, pedicure on a regular basis should be preventative, and i will only reccommend them to a chiropidist if they develop problems like huge corns, badly ingrown toenails etc.
which if you do a thorough job, like clearing under the toenails and from the nail folds of the toes, these problems are unlikely to occur.
so.. do u expand your pedicure clientele, or give them to the local chiropidist?

This is how I feel as well.

And someone mentioned working on feet with fungal infections being a concern because it might be spread throught their footbaths or implements. If a technician is properly disinfecting their implements and foothbaths then there is no chance to spread it.

 

[user 17140]

Just out of interest as i am a quite new , how do you structure your prices if your client has thick toe nails with gunge under, thick skin and generally needs more work, do you charge her the same as a client who just wants her feet pampered and painted?

 

[liza smith]

we have 4 different prices for feet.
1. file & paint
2.regular pedicure
3.luxury pedicure
4. brisa overlays (as a stand alone or an individual treatment)

if im doing a regular pedicure and they need lots of toenail attention, then i dont spend so much time on the massage.
on consultation and during the 1st treatment i will discuss which the priorities are.
the client has 2 choices. either spend same money and time but miss out on massage time, or extend to luxury pedi, which is an extension of 20-30 mins so as not to miss out on so much.
i find client are split about 50/50 on which of the 2 they choose.
some of my clients dont even have their toes painted, they just want comfie feet that look clean and tidy, so i buff & oil them after treating them.

 

[user 17140]

we have 4 different prices for feet.
1. file & paint
2.regular pedicure
3.luxury pedicure
4. brisa overlays (as a stand alone or an individual treatment)

if im doing a regular pedicure and they need lots of toenail attention, then i dont spend so much time on the massage.
on consultation and during the 1st treatment i will discuss which the priorities are.
the client has 2 choices. either spend same money and time but miss out on massage time, or extend to luxury pedi, which is an extension of 20-30 mins so as not to miss out on so much.
i find client are split about 50/50 on which of the 2 they choose.
some of my clients dont even have their toes painted, they just want comfie feet that look clean and tidy, so i buff & oil them after treating them.

Thanks , that is a great help!

 

[lush224]

I see this is quite an old thread now but saw it and just had to give my opinion! I used to be trained to do manicures and pedicures but did not train in any other beauty treatments. I completed a degree in Podiatry a couple years ago and so as a qualified Podiatrist feel I can comment on this question.

As far as I am concerned a pedicure should be a cosmetic treatment involving making the nails look nice, smoothing hard skin etc.
A podiatrist foot care treatment should be a medical treatment involving the removal of hard skin with a scalpel, cutting nails, reducing thickened nails, treating fungal infections and removing corns. Podiatrists are not concerned with making the feet look pretty, they are concerned with making them healthy and comfortable, when we do nails we ensure they are smooth and safe with no sharp edges.

So if an elderly patients presents with lots of gunge under her nails which is yellow, this indicates a fungal infection. A podiatrist can identify this and knows how to correct and treat it. A podiatrist is also insured should something go wrong, a pedicurist would not be in this instance. There is also the issue of cross infection, you need to wear latex or similar standard gloves and the instruments used need to be sterlilised in an autoclave after treatment.

I can see how it would be tempting as a customer to pay a pedicurist to sort your nails out rather than a podiatrist as it is cheaper. But I don't think any pedicurist should be messing about with nails which have potential fungal infections, you don't have the medical training for this. Just like a podiatrist isn't trained in manicures.

Another thought is when there is a nail pathology like fungus present, if you go and push back the cuticles on their toe nails then this causes a problem. This is because cuticles are there to stop bacteria getting into the body. When the cuticle is removed this allows passage of bacteria into the body and if the nails have fungus, you can be introducing this into the body. Bad news particularly for an elderly patient!

Podiatrists have to do a 3 year degree which is very difficult, they also have to gain certificates in local anaesthetic and prescription only medicines. That is why the can warrant charging more for foot treatment.

 

[Fingers&Toes]

Having only just qualified in Nail Services SVQ Level 2, I seem to be rather confused as to who would treat someone with a blatant fungal infection and who wouldn't.

Text book says Fungal infection, Veruccae, Athletes foot are all GENERAL contra indications to a pedicure, and should be spotted during the initial examination of the foot before it goes in to soak, and should be referred to a GP for appropriate diagnosis and treatment.

An obvious fungal nail infection, that has taken hold, would take months to treat, as the nail would have to grow out.

Please, before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I was a paramedic in the Navy for over 10 years, and have a great deal of knowledge in diagnosing these particularly common things.

My main reason for posting this is cross infection, of you, your tools, your foot spa, potentially future clients. All it takes is a slight lapse in concentration, and you could be facing a lawsuit?

Is there any defining body that says what we are allowed to treat and not to treat?? I know Habia have their standards, but is it still left to personal choice??

I personally would err on the side of caution when it came to a fungal nail infection, due to the length of time it would take to treat properly.

Anyone got any views??

OMG I have rambled!! Wake UP everyone :green:

 

[footwoman]

Hello All,
As a chiropodist I would be interested in hearing the answer to this, as I have had several patients with fungal nail infections who CLAIMED they got this infection following a pedicure at a beauty salon.
regards
Footwoman.

 

[weezie]

I'm sure if correct hygiene procedures are not followed a client could get an infection from a beauty therapist or a podiatrist, or a doctor or a nurse, it all depends on the individual involved and their procedures. What if the infection is non visible for example, this is why we should treat every client as a possible transmitter and clean our tools throughly.

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

Hello All,
As a chiropodist I would be interested in hearing the answer to this, as I have had several patients with fungal nail infections who CLAIMED they got this infection following a pedicure at a beauty salon.
regards
Footwoman.

I agree with weezie, that infections can be spread if correct precautions and methods are not followed. However, It would be interesting to know what 'salons' these clients are referring to. Are they genuine reputable high street/home based salons, or are they NSS which are already giving our industry a bad name, because they are not properly trained in anatomy/physiology, indications/contraindications and precautions, procedure, aftercare and hygiene?

Just about anybody nowadays can do a one off one or two day course in mani/ped and consider themselves qualified!

But then on the other hand, can these clients back up their 'claims' and be absolutely certain that this is how they developed an infection?

 

[bellabeautie]

When I trained in my VTCT nvq 2 manicures and pedicures, we were always told that if any one had a hint of a bacterial infection or fungal infection then we were to strictly not to treat but to recommned they see their gp first. I suppose like all things, you always do things differently from how you did when you were training. I wouldnt go as far as cleaning puss yellow white gunk out though, yuk!xx

 

[Peeps]

I am approaching the end of a 2 year HND in Beauty Therapy. The 1st year of the course was 4 days per week plus one late evening, and 2nd year has been 3.5 days with 1 late evening plus an additional 11 days salon experience.

1st year subjects covered in 1 semester (1/2 a year) were contemporary aesthetics (covered tanning, nail art, eyelash perming, ear piercing), facial treatments, face and body electrical, nail extensions, management and practice of body therapies, management and practice of facial therapies, indian head massage and make-up. The last 2 being optional as I had already did nail care and depilation.
1st year subjects over 2 semesters (1 full year) were human anatomy & physiology, (definitely dont just 'skim over' this), body massage and employment experience. In addition to this the HND now has a Graded Unit which is a practical and written piece of work over 1 semester which incorporates all subjects studied and instead of credits, student are graded an A, B or C.
2nd year subjects covered in 1 semester are electro-cosmetic therapy, lifestyle advice, spa treatments, product knowledge and principles & practice of selling. 2 semester subjects are contemporary electrotherapy, graded unit, aromatherapy, reflexology and preparing & presenting a business plan.

I was an information/office manager for 7 years before deciding to do Beauty full time and I've got to say this is the hardest thing i've ever done. It's not the subjects that are hard but the sheer volume of work is overwhelming at times because of course like everyone, in order to pay the bills I have to also work 25-30 hours per week on top of college hours and study time. Now that the moans over i would also say i absolutely love beauty therapy and have no regrets .

A high school student told her science teacher she was thinking of doing the Beauty Therapy HND to which he replied 'you're better than that'. Idiot!!!

 

[RedAdmiral]

Footwoman this thread is from 2007 although very relavant today many things in the industry have changed.

 

[footwoman]

Hi all,
Some of the postings are recent.
Thought this was a newish thread.
regards
Footwoman.
(confused)

 

[Ruta]

Prior to any proceadure I would examine client's feet for problems like verucas and fungal infection. If you notice any of these I would advise client on treatment available in farmacies or simply advise to go to the GP as you can not treat their condition. But for example all other problems like ingrowth, corns etc I treat myself and have clients that bring me regular and very good income but I must add that I have a traing which falls in between pedicuris and chiropodist so I know how to deal with such situations..
Through my carrier in UK and abroad I have met quite few pedicurists who did not enjoy their job. I find pleasure by being able to help people and more problematic feet I get more excited I get as it receive feeld for work and thought and also pleasure for helping people.
By the sound of it your client had one of fungal skin infection. This should have been visible prior to the proceadure. With older peoples feet you have to be careful as some of them have thinned and easily breaking skin due to poor circulation even if they don't have diabetis, and I wouldn't advise to trim cuticules on toes just gently push it as older girls can get infections easier if they wear shoes without socks...

 

[Ruta]

Most of people who end up with skin problems at any time in their life are tempted to blame them on any beauty proceadures undertaken in the past. As a chiropodist you know that fungal infection can be cought in i.e. a shoe shop by trying shoes on without socks...But they don't rememeber that most of the time...