TPTW ... Are we doing more and more for less and less?

[geeg]

Some of you will have read it before, when I have written about how back in 1985 I started doing nails and in those days charged 35.00 for a full set of anything really, whether it was L&P. Fibreglass wraps, Gel, NNO, pink and white or one colour ... whatever it was, if it was a full set, it was 35.00.

Over the years my prices went up until finally, when I left the salon and went on to do full time education and distribution for CND, I was charging 70.00 for full sets (and getting it).

Since I left full time salon work .. over the last 10 years, I have watched prices go down and down and down .. yet technicians are no quicker at the job (excluding the discount salons) .. and all costs have gone up. I ask myself, where is the sense in that and what is the reason behind it? Is it solely competition? And who are we really good techs competing against? Other techs that are less skilled, less professional? Those who have less education and use pants products? Those who are limited in what they can offer while we offer everything?

Back in the eighties, clients had very little choice ... one colour or pink and white .. no coloured acrylics, no coloured tips, no glitter acrylics or coloured gels ... no 3d nail art or embedded bits or canes or anything that was easy like that .. only hand applied bits and pieces (very time consuming) and nail polish for coloured effects.

Nails were easy to maintain .. no Forever French .. no redos of the white zone 1 (it was a whole new set if the client wanted that, or a painted French manicure both of which came with a surcharge which increased our revenue).

We are doing and offering more and more to our clients but for some unknown reason, I see technicians charging less and less . Personally I think this makes no sense at all and wonder how anyone can make a proper living ??? Is this why so many have had to offer other services like spray tanning and waxing etc to supplement their income because they feel nails only is no longer enough?

Do we not think it is time to start to charge for what we really do and the time we spend doing it ... or have we (or others) dug a hole too deep for us now to climb out of? What do you think is the answer??

Should we maybe stop offering so many different choices to clients and go back to offering more basic services again that will take us less time and net us a better return? What are your thoughts?

No need to feel you have to answer every question here .. some are just to provoke food for thought. :hug:

 

[jes]

I think it's all down to supply and demand. 20 years ago demand for nails was more than the supply (techs) so the prices were kept high. Nowadays it's turned around and there's more techs than the demand (clients).

It's the same with spray tanning. It only seems like yesterday when you couldn't find a spray tan for less than £35, nowadays I've seen them as cheap as £9 .

For a new tech starting out there's no tax and NI for them to pay for, up to, 2 years and it's easy for them to think everything they take is profit. However, when they add up the costs and their first tax bill arrives, they'll realise their £15 to £20 a full set, really, should have been a bit higher :lol:

 

[Annie23]

This is a fantastic thread and I will be eagerly awaiting responses. I don't feel that I can answer as I'm not a working tech as yet.

anne xx

 

[essentia]

A few reasons I can think of is
1. the trend to give 'added value' to our treatments. We improve our service to make us more competitively advantaged
2. the cost of living has risen and nails and beauty have not always been seen as an 'essential' need like food and paying utility bills
3. The market place has seem a rise in barely qualified techs following the one day course explosion and competition has forced prices down
4. Fear - therapists still will not charge what they are worth for fear of having no clients and no return on their investment

I am sure there are many other suggestions but these are the immediate ones that sprung to mind.:hug:

 

[Bagpuss]

Like many things over the years prices lower making more things affordable to everyone and not just those with lots of money. TV's where considered a luxury item years ago, now we all have 1 and often more.

The bigger and more widely available something gets the lower the price becomes....if something is more exclusive you often find you can expect to pay more for it....so i think it is to do with there being more and more places to choose from these days....its no longer seen as something only the well off can afford.

There are those who believe the more you pay for something the better it must be....bit like designer clothes...sometimes that's right but sometimes it isnt...so there will always be those who are happy and can afford to pay £70 for a set of nails....in certain areas, but for majority of people they just cant afford that....and so they find a cheaper alternative...often finding that that alternative is just as good and gets the desired effect.

I know 100% that people will not pay £70 for nails where i live....people just don't have that kind of disposable income round here.

 

[mum]

My 2pennyworth:

Loads and loads of technicians and too many clients that need to be convinced!

I've said it before but every beauty journalist that I've talked to (most of them over the years) have all had a very bad experience without exception. They are going to the top salons for various experiences and they have ALL been scared off.

This has obviously happened to many clients who wanted 'nails' and they are just not willing to have another go.

This is why Minx has done so well in the press. It's new, it's fun and it's safe! The magazines WANT to write about nails but they just can't find anything good to write about artificial nails. This, to me explains what is happening.

Prices need to come down to attract clients plus there are obviously many devotees of the discount salons.

Bit of a vicious circle: the public could be educated by the press but the press can't do it because, as a general service, the standard isn't good enough for them to recommend. And if the professional industry can't agree on what a good service is how do the journalists have a chance??

 

[geeg]

A few reasons I can think of is


1. the trend to give 'added value' to our treatments. We improve our service to make us more competitively advantaged
But in actual fact, is it having the desired effect or just diluting the specialist service?



2. the cost of living has risen and nails and beauty have not always been seen as an 'essential' need like food and paying utility bills
I don't agree with this. History does not bear out what you say. In the last recession when I started I saw steady growth from day one. During this recession business has GROWN andis still growing. Beauty services are seenas a small indulgence and women are not giving them up unless they absolutely have to.


3. The market place has seen a rise in barely qualified techs following the one day course explosion and competition has forced prices down
ARE they competition?? The good techs I know have NOT put their prices down and in many cases have put them UP.



4. Fear - therapists still will not charge what they are worth for fear of having no clients and no return on their investment.
When in actual fact, they could put thier prices up, do less work and make the same!! You're right about the fear bit .. they are to scared to bebold and do it.



I am sure there are many other suggestions but these are the immediate ones that sprung to mind.:hug:

Just a few of my own thoughts.

 

[*sarah*]

I'm sick of seeing flyers with people offering a full set of L & P for £20 or even one for £10 could'nt believe it! or spray tan's for £10! they seem to be using cheap products too, this really bugs me, as where I live folk can be pretty tight I'm just glad I use products that are of excellant quality and thats how I justify to these ladies that I charge what I do!
I actually take it as an insult to all beauty professionals that people charge so little and use cheapo products! xx

 

[essentia]

1. the trend to give 'added value' to our treatments. We improve our service to make us more competitively advantaged
But in actual fact, is it having the desired effect or just diluting the specialist service?
Probably diluting it as you say. Clients expect more for their money.

2. the cost of living has risen and nails and beauty have not always been seen as an 'essential' need like food and paying utility bills
I don't agree with this. History does not bear out what you say. In the last recession when I started I saw steady growth from day one. During this recession business has GROWN andis still growing. Beauty services are seenas a small indulgence and women are not giving them up unless they absolutely have to.
Yes there has been a trend for it to be more essential - I notice this for waxing especially but some of the other treatments are still forgone (sp) when money is tight.


3. The market place has seen a rise in barely qualified techs following the one day course explosion and competition has forced prices down
ARE they competition?? The good techs I know have NOT put their prices down and in many cases have put them UP.
Strictly speaking no - but like someone mentioned education may be key as a lot of consumers are still uniformed and if there are more techs per area than there was before it is feasible trade may be diluted even for a time.


4. Fear - therapists still will not charge what they are worth for fear of having no clients and no return on their investment.
When in actual fact, they could put thier prices up, do less work and make the same!! You're right about the fear bit .. they are to scared to bebold and do it.
I have noticed this ever since I qualified and it is a bug bear.:hug:

 

[Deena]

Just a few random observations here. In my area, prices are pretty cheap and getting cheaper, apart from a few techs who won't budge and regularly sit at empty tables. There must be 'Some' techs who are doing ok, but I suspect they're in the minority, unless they follow the downward trend and charge peanuts. The idea of an all singing/all dancing £70 set, no matter how awesome, would be unthinkable here.

A lot of people I come into contact with have experienced NSS salons, don't like them because they hurt, their Frenches chip <air brushed on> and it's all polish and flicks. A lot have never seen glitter/colour acrylics, don't understand what a sculpt is and think everything should take 45 minutes. What chance does a 'Traditionally' trained tech stand?

Maybe I'm wrong, but those are my observations. I'm not a working tech, but have no intention of retiring my brush because I thoroughly enjoy doing nails and am continually striving to improve myself. I didn't enter into this to get a new hobby, but until or unless things change I definitely won't be giving up the day job.

 

[VHunter]

Lots of food for thought here.
And for the record, before I reply, my Jan Price list is already made up with increases :green: I know I'll lose a few clients, but I'll gain others.
I am more skilled than the guy working at the Burger joint... I should make more than him too!!


I wasn't working in nails in the 80's, so I don't know how to answer with regards to that comparison.

But, I think in general, while cost of living went up, many things have become cheaper because they are more common and I think that "commonality" (for lack of a better word) is one of the things that drove prices downwards.
Example: DVD Players, they used to be a minimum of 800$. Now you can get one that does EVERYTHING under the sun for 150$
Satelites for TV: used to be as big as your car, and worth several 1000 BUT now they're as small as a large Wok, and free when you subscribe to services.
I could list many more comparisons.
NOW GRANTED... you often get what you pay for when you choose cheaper models/brands. But sometimes, they are no worse than the big names.

Technicians used to be few and far between. Now we're cropping up all over the place and everyone gets their nails done.

Supply and demand: when there is limited supply, price is high. When there is ample supply, price is low.
Such is true with many things.

I don't think it's that we want to price ourselves low, but it is what it is.
I know for a FACT that if I charged 70$ a set, I'd never have a client.
Not in my neighborhood, that's for darn sure.
If I worked in west island where all the 'richies' are... sure... I could get it.. IF I worked in a fancy spa.

Granted, many of us are way underpriced... Some of us are so-so.
But I think it's really down to the reality of "supply & demand" that has our prices so low.

 

[geeg]

I'm not trying to brag or say that 70.00 for a full set is what one will get today. Funily enough it was an experiment that taught me something important.

I wanted to leave the salon .. completely .. and go into full time education. I thought, if I put my price up fairly astronomically, then people would say .. well , we can't afford that so we'll use one of the other technicians in the shop, and I could leave.

Of course I lost some clients (that is what I was hoping would happen) but I kept half of them and at double the price I was working less and making the same. I wondered why I hadn't done it years before? :lol: Well years before I would have been to scared to do it. :Scared:

Anyway, finally I just told everyone I was leaving and that was that ... they had to move to other nail artists within the salon and all was well with the world. lol So many are still clients today 25 years later.

 

[Yurionfire]

Manufacturer will always gain their profit and they will find a reason why they have to increase the material price i.e. change packaging, more advertising and so on...

 

[salpep]

I have only been doing nails for just over a year and a half, so I can't comment on how things used to be.
But in the time I have been doing them this is what Iv'e noticed:
80% of my phone calls are people from nns salons, saying that they no longer want to return there as the e-files hurt...so I have to go through the whole thing that it's not the e-file it's the person behind it etc etc
Most of my clients only want the french look and will they stay on because such and such down the road did them and they only stayed on a week
Catch 22....Now I put my prices up, then got told I was too expensive and new clients dropped off, so i put my prices back, then only to be told last week I was very cheap!! Sometimes I think this is a no win situation.
However I will not fail I chose to do this business and will stick at it. I think the way I look at it is, I must keep offering more, make myself stand out not only with my nails but with my website, going to wedding fairs etc I have a few charity do's to go to next year. Plus no-one in my area is doing Minx so thats the next one I have already told them about it and got them all interested.
As for clients having no money I think we all have money for the things we want!
For the ones that do the cheaper nails in my area they will fail and when they do I will be there to collect thier clients, bad thing to say maybe but if they don't want to work at it then Que sera sera
x

 

[Deena]

I think over here, it's a combination of supply and demand and the recession, of course. You can't be worrying about your nails when you're on benefits because you've been made redundant!

Locally, one of the best techs in town has dropped her full set prices from £25 to £20. It's not a 'Special,' she's been doing it for months, and is earning less than she was three years ago. She supplements her income with spray tans, gets her £15 rebalance price for it and is over and done with in a fraction of the time. :irked:

 

[geeg]

Manufacturer will always gain their profit and they will find a reason why they have to increase the material price i.e. change packaging, more advertising and so on...

I don't know if you mean to sound cynical, but manufacturers have legitimate reasons to raise prices as cost of goods increases, just like any other business. NO ONE likes to raise prices .. it is a case of having to both for suppliers and technicians.

Everyone is trying to survive in this world ... no one survives by being greedy and raising prices for no reason. Prices for goods increases legitimately from time to time. In actual fact the prices in the nail industry have remained pretty stable over the years. It is one industry where cost of goods for services is only about 13% ... that is incredible when you think of other indistries where cost of goods for services can be as high as 50%!! Some would say that it is the technicians who are really the greedy ones for making the charges they make!! But they love to blame suppliers. no no.

How many technicians really work out the cost of services in a business -like way instead of going round to see what everyone else is charging and then making their decision on that? Most nail techs never bother to work it out properly .. they don't know how .. they just charge what the girl down the road charges!! Crazy

 

[sarahpoppy24]

Hello, it makes sence that if you are realy busy to put up your prices if you lose a few it wont matter becuse you will be working less for the same money. I always read the coffee with cuccio in scratch and he says try to hunt down the rich clients so you can charge more. I live about five miles out form what was once named the richest square mile in England. However in the winter this area is a ghost town where they all go back up to london or abroad. They are probably paying massive amounts for their beauty treatment where they live but they expect locals prices when they are here. However you could probably charge a large amount more than the average salon around here if I aimed just for these clients. So I could put my prices high and work flat out through the summer when they are here and hopefully get a few locals too if they are willing to pay fot it. What I do now is have my prices around average and have all year round work obviously busier in the summer becuse of the second home owners. I like my local clients though I have a right laugh with them and they are all so down to earth. I think I enjoy my job the way it is but I would be working for more and doing less hours if i put my prices up so it is hard to know what to do for the best realy as my client base would change so so much if I did this. However I have increased my prices this year and I will again becuse I need to make money at the end of the day this is my situation xxxx

 

[Yurionfire]

So sorry if you don't like what I expressed my opinion but...

What I mean is; nail technician should be the one who deserve their hard work.

I really adore the way you help each other, exchange and share your knowledge though I've just join this community but I have learn a lot from you.

If your keep letting your customer know that you have ethical in your professional job.

£70 or more is what I'm going to pay if i know that I will have my nail enhancement without ugly sculpture, MMO powder and lifting for the next two week..

If you won't put your heart into your work, the result will show whether you use high quality product... because I think customer need something more than pricing.

They need good friendly service, professional consulting and relaxing atmosphere rather that a feeling like aware of the nail technician will add more additional service and overcharge them or being trapped...

For the manufacture; at least loyalty customer should deserve something in return... What do you think?

 

[FlawlessBeauty]

I think that if a salon/nail tech is reasonably busy then they can put their prices up, not double, lol, but maybe a couple of pounds each year or every other year.

Regular clients usually do not mind this small increase because they know what they are getting for it. Word of mouth brings existing clients in.

I didn't increase my prices due to recession and found most people expected it and a lot asked me when they were going up and were amazed it was the same...so i might put them up for 2010.

I think we're all scared that we'll lose our existing income. However it only makes sense that as your costs increase so do your prices.

Problem 1 - there are so many techs around today. However, are they as good as you?

Problem 2 - bad techs give a bad reputation to everyone else. As they say, bad news reaches many more than good news.

Problem 3 - clients today are lacking the education they need to make an informed decision. "Everyone does the same job, i'll go to the NSS bar where its cheaper", their nails are wrecked and come to the conclusion "acrylic is bad for your nails".

 

[VHunter]

I'm not trying to brag or say that 70.00 for a full set is what one will get today. Funily enough it was an experiment that taught me something important.
I know that you're not! BUT the fact is, you KICK ass and I don't measure up to you yet...(working on it though LOL xoxo)


Of course I lost some clients (that is what I was hoping would happen) but I kept half of them and at double the price I was working less and making the same. I wondered why I hadn't done it years before? :lol: Well years before I would have been to scared to do it. :Scared:
Hmmm been thinking along those lines myself...when I've gotten better at L&P.....

Anyway, finally I just told everyone I was leaving and that was that ... they had to move to other nail artists within the salon and all was well with the world. lol So many are still clients today 25 years later.

Regular clients usually do not mind this small increase because they know what they are getting for it. Word of mouth brings existing clients in.
Exactly!

I didn't increase my prices due to recession and found most people expected it and a lot asked me when they were going up and were amazed it was the same...so i might put them up for 2010.
I gave my clients a break for the recession, so they know it's coming in 2010 and none are concerned. They feel I've earned it lol

Problem 1 - there are so many techs around today. However, are they as good as you?
As arrogant as this sounds, in my immediate neighborhood... only one. And I'm not 1/2 as good as some of the techs on this forum. So go figure?
But, it does give me confidence to raise my prices and not worry overmuch.

Problem 2 - bad techs give a bad reputation to everyone else. As they say, bad news reaches many more than good news.
Yup and give l&p a bad name AND gel a bad name because of the NSS scams

Problem 3 - clients today are lacking the education they need to make an informed decision. "Everyone does the same job, i'll go to the NSS bar where its cheaper", their nails are wrecked and come to the conclusion "acrylic is bad for your nails".

Yup and I'm educating them every day AND so are my educated clients LOL