TPTW ... Are we doing more and more for less and less?

[katiebbaby]

Found this thread as I am looking at reviewing my prices due to me being alot more confident in my technique and ability as a nail tech, I have invested in my education and pride myself on how far I have come in such short space of time.

In just over a year I have completed my sig 5 foundation with CND and practised and practied cried and huffed and puffed, blamed my brush clients and products:cry:, I charged next to nothing to cover costs put myself out there and done nails so to speak, looking back my nails were pants lol, but hey we all start somewhere I was taking around 2hrs to perform full set rebalance, and started sculpting on a form from day 1.

I went on to do my spa mani and pedi, and then onto do a 1-1 tuition with julia moran and skill building, I have doine minx from day one and shellac also, I then went on to do my masters route doing all my seminars which were enhancment rebalancing , cc blending, and lift prevention (my pers fave), I am awaiting my date for the last day of my masters. I have since went on to do my kuppa efile training. All this within 18 months, I look back at what I have achieved and I am extremely proud at how far I have come.

However my prices dont seem to reflect the level at where I am at and what I know I should really be charging as I know that there are not many techs locally whom can do beautifull long lasting enhancments with the knowledge skill which I have, I need to increase my prices to reflect this as I feel it will also attract a better client base, I have aprox 30-40 regulars whom book in for 3weekly also do spray tanning so have client base from that. I can take on probably about another 20-25 clients.

My timing has come down to approx 1-30 min problem free rebalance, yet have to book 2hr appts as I am mobile.

Should I just increase prices slow or big, ie couple of pound a time? I currently charge £25 per full set but I never do on my regs anyhows so that would be ok to increase to new clients to say £30, I charge £20 for rebalances at the minute @3 weeks, i was thinking of say a price increase to £20 @ 2weeks £23 at 3 weeks and £26 four weeks anything more will be price of full set. I am also wandering shall I inform clients of this NOW and put prices up in nov?

Also with the VAT going up will I have to do increase then also, or would I be wise to wait? but I am wanting to increase ideally before xmas period.

What would or have all you guys done, HELP

Much love and respect kate

 

[Annebet]

Hiya It's really hard now to many techs charging to cheap prices and making it hard for anybody.
I had my manicure table for sale on ebay as I have just bought a new one and a few people emailed me, so being nosey checked them out and the majority of them where buying there acrylic from overseas at really really cheap prices, so am assuming they may have mma in them also.
One girl near me is charging I think its £35 pound for nail extentions, a tan and eyelashes I mean cmon how can she making any money unless she is buying from ebay, had a girl come for a Tan and told me a salon is charging £5.00 per tan, thought she was trying it on to be honest, but I checked the salon out and yes they are charging £5.00 per tan.
To me it is cheapening the beauty and nail industry and spoiling it for the professionals who have spent proper money on Training and products. There really needs to be some sort of licence system for the UK like America at least then the untrained can't work anymore. And a ban on MMA, but will it ever happen :irked: I doubt it :irked:

 

[Up To Scratch]

I totally agree that this is all about confidence, setting yourself apart from the competition and catering to a niche market. The majority of my week is spent working as a mobile therapist (although I do make a weekly 'guest appearance' at a local salon!), for which I charge an absolute minimum of £45-£50 per set, with maintenance starting at £20. Shellac starts at £25, my manis are £20-£25+, my pedis £25-£30+. I do not consider this to be expensive.

Whilst many of my clients are wealthy, I see people from all walks of life and they pay my prices gladly (& very often ask me if I'm sure it's enough!) because they are so happy with the attention to detail and the standard of finish; they also appreciate a therapist that offers something different (most of my business being silk wraps & Shellac) gives them attention/advice re their nails, who is friendly, and who offers that personal touch. I do not carry a bad mood around with me, ever, and this is - according to my ladies - a rare find!

I simply cannot understand how any of you can charge £20-£30 a set and still make any money! Is l&p really that cheap to buy in & easy to do?! Not, it is not. I know I don't earn anything to shout about, so to hear of fellow nail professionals selling themselves so short - it makes me really sad & I will keep hoping that business picks up for you so that one day you can afford to charge something approaching what you are worth.

Whilst I do charge sensibly, not overly-cheaply, clients also know that I'm not taking the mickey & will take care of them - if one of my regulars breaks a nail, when she is normally fabulous with them, I'm not going to make an issue of it or charge for a replacement nail (although many insist on paying for it anyway). If someone refers a new client to me, I'll often offer them a free file & polish on their toes as a thank you.

The most important thing is that I love my job and I'm confident in what I do; I also absolutely love meeting new people - all of this shows. Clients aren't just paying for nails, they are paying for an experience & buying into you as much as they are your products & services. If you don't love what you do, you probably shouldn't be doing it. xx

 

[katiebbaby]

I currently charge £25 and I am rising this to £30 as of nov, however all my clients are rebalance clients with 2-3 weekly appts as prev poster, I charge similar to yourself from £20, I think this is too cheap I am wanting to get my rebalance price eventually up to £25 @ 2 weeks and £28 @ 3 weeks and every day thereafter will be charged accordingly.

It is hard to determin a price menu and stick to it when new in the industry but for the amount of time I have been in the industry I think im not doing too bad. I used to pay £25 every 3 weeks for rebalance on my own enhancments 5 years ago.

Just out of curiousity what is backscratchers, are they not a little old fashioned? sorry I am not being ignorant Its just I have heared of them but yrs and yrs ago,,,,sorry maybe its something I should know.

xx

 

[katiebbaby]

I totally agree that this is all about confidence, setting yourself apart from the competition and catering to a niche market. The majority of my week is spent working as a mobile therapist (although I do make a weekly 'guest appearance' at a local salon!), for which I charge an absolute minimum of £45-£50 per set, with maintenance starting at £20. Shellac starts at £25, my manis are £20-£25+, my pedis £25-£30+. I do not consider this to be expensive.

Whilst many of my clients are wealthy, I see people from all walks of life and they pay my prices gladly (& very often ask me if I'm sure it's enough!) because they are so happy with the attention to detail and the standard of finish; they also appreciate a therapist that offers something different (most of my business being silk wraps & Shellac) gives them attention/advice re their nails, who is friendly, and who offers that personal touch. I do not carry a bad mood around with me, ever, and this is - according to my ladies - a rare find!

I simply cannot understand how any of you can charge £20-£30 a set and still make any money! Is l&p really that cheap to buy in & easy to do?! Not, it is not. I know I don't earn anything to shout about, so to hear of fellow nail professionals selling themselves so short - it makes me really sad & I will keep hoping that business picks up for you so that one day you can afford to charge something approaching what you are worth.

Whilst I do charge sensibly, not overly-cheaply, clients also know that I'm not taking the mickey & will take care of them - if one of my regulars breaks a nail, when she is normally fabulous with them, I'm not going to make an issue of it or charge for a replacement nail (although many insist on paying for it anyway). If someone refers a new client to me, I'll often offer them a free file & polish on their toes as a thank you.

The most important thing is that I love my job and I'm confident in what I do; I also absolutely love meeting new people - all of this shows. Clients aren't just paying for nails, they are paying for an experience & buying into you as much as they are your products & services. If you don't love what you do, you probably shouldn't be doing it. xx

I totally agree with last quote, I am passionate about nail care and love every aspect of my job, I love my products and my clients love learning new techniques and overcoming problems. I cant believe I get paid to do something I really really enjoy anf look forward to every morning. xx

 

[lisa.sharrock]

This is a great thread but it scares the hell out of me as I'm recently qualified and currently trying to set out my prices to go self employed mobile.

I'll be honest it's completely stressing me out, I've been round lots of salons, picked up leaflets, browsed websites and have seen how much other nail techs are charging, anything from £10 to £55 for a set of french tips. Liverpool is inundated with beauty salons and some of them offer pink and whites for £20.00.

So, my dilema is pretty much the same as every newbie in town, how do I charge accordingly? I have the training, but not the extensive experience on *real life, paying* client. My timings aren't amazing, I take approx 1hr 15 to 1hr 30, yet I'm pretty sure people expect me to take 45 mins to an hour to complete a set, by the time I'm pusing the hour mark I'm starting to (inwardly) panic. I'd LOVE to be able to do extra training, be it 1 to 1 or masters but at this point can't financially. Although I am doing my Creative conversion course, which will help.

So this is where my pricing nightmare is, I know that professionally I *should* be charging £35 + a set yet I don't feel that I can because I don't have the experience. I wish there was an industry standard price whereby we all had to stick to them, give or take a fiver. I do have my price list ready to go and would be grateful if somebody would take the time to have a look, I can send you a PM rather than post it on here as I don't want to clog up this thread.

Your comments would be appreciated. x

 

[smooth]

It's the same for any industry, you get people undercutting continuously and it cheapens the industry and some businesses end up in a pricing war. This is the wrong thing to do, the best thing for everyone is to raise their prices, you charge cheap you get clients who want a bargain and will complain accordingly. Charge higher prices, you tend to get better clients who are generally nice in the event of any complaints they have.

 

[katiebbaby]

Totally agree and I have just informed all my clients via email/text of new price structure, I really feel angry at myself now for going out of my way for some clients and it just gets expected, however most clients would insist on paying me for mini solar oils I give as gifts or a nail breakage etc.

I am fully confident that I am worth alot more than my prices even after my increase and I am confident in the fact that if any of my clients feel the price increase is unjustified then I can gaurntee they will not find a nail tach whom can do there nails as I do, using the same products for the same price as I was and if they do I would think they would be fully booked and not able to take on new clients

I am willing to stand up for what I am worth, I want to attract certain clients the ones whom respect there nails and will take responsibility for there nailcare regime instead of getting there nails done every 3 weeks and expecting them to be wonderfull with out so much as a whiff of solar oil inbetween appointments, clients whom look after their enhancments MORE will pay LESS.

I feel so much better for doing this haha, I really do not care what other nail techs salons etc charge, if clients wanna go there then thats their choice, but im sure as hell they will creep back, as more and more there are new tech coming into the indusry charging silly prices, some using inferior lower end products, some /most sadly with inccorect knowledge, technique understanding of their products and how they work.,,,,But hey if you can do nails in 1 hr you must be good hey, that lately seems to be a thing I hear alot of,, quality not quantity I say:lol::lol:

xxx

 

[jacqueline]

I too think it is all about supply and demand compared to years ago.

On a sidenote, I cringe sometimes back in the States when in I see full sets advertised at $15, at current exchange rates, this is less than a tenner and that is in nail salons not mobile. It's the same for spa pedi/spa manicure offers, $30, still less than $20 for both services.

We charge considerably higher and luckily get it as we offer a high end enviroment in the spa and these other nail salons leave a lot to be desired, techs eating and drinking, talking loudly amongst themselves in their own language, watch tv (in their own language) BUT generally the work is generally ok and some clients just don't care about enviroment and nice products they just want "cheap"

 

[geeg]

Everyone is entitled to find their own level! It's true, some people do not recognize quality and some don't care as long as the price is right for THEM.
Nothing new about that.

I also wouldn't get too cocky about what you think you are worth. What you are worth is driven by much more than the nails you produce. For top prices you have to be offering allot more than just pretty nails.

This thread was not originally about what one is worth. It was about doing things in a way that costs more and takes more of your time for which you do not get paid. See original posts.

 

[katiebbaby]

Some of you will have read it before, when I have written about how back in 1985 I started doing nails and in those days charged 35.00 for a full set of anything really, whether it was L&P. Fibreglass wraps, Gel, NNO, pink and white or one colour ... whatever it was, if it was a full set, it was 35.00.

Over the years my prices went up until finally, when I left the salon and went on to do full time education and distribution for CND, I was charging 70.00 for full sets (and getting it).

Since I left full time salon work .. over the last 10 years, I have watched prices go down and down and down .. yet technicians are no quicker at the job (excluding the discount salons) .. and all costs have gone up. I ask myself, where is the sense in that and what is the reason behind it? Is it solely competition? And who are we really good techs competing against? Other techs that are less skilled, less professional? Those who have less education and use pants products? Those who are limited in what they can offer while we offer everything?

Back in the eighties, clients had very little choice ... one colour or pink and white .. no coloured acrylics, no coloured tips, no glitter acrylics or coloured gels ... no 3d nail art or embedded bits or canes or anything that was easy like that .. only hand applied bits and pieces (very time consuming) and nail polish for coloured effects.

Nails were easy to maintain .. no Forever French .. no redos of the white zone 1 (it was a whole new set if the client wanted that, or a painted French manicure both of which came with a surcharge which increased our revenue).

We are doing and offering more and more to our clients but for some unknown reason, I see technicians charging less and less . Personally I think this makes no sense at all and wonder how anyone can make a proper living ??? Is this why so many have had to offer other services like spray tanning and waxing etc to supplement their income because they feel nails only is no longer enough?

Do we not think it is time to start to charge for what we really do and the time we spend doing it ... or have we (or others) dug a whole too deep for us now to climb out of? What do you think is the answer??

Should we maybe stop offering so many different choices to clients and go back to offering more basic services again that will take us less time and net us a better return? What are your thoughts?

No need to feel you have to answer every question here .. some are just to provoke food for thought. :hug:

I totally agree what you are saying, I myself personally am trying to stand up for what I feel im worth. I have gone out my way bent over backwards and still do as they are paying clients, I got best education I can, I learnt how to sculpt on form, tip and overlay, cc blend, done follow up education, shellac, minx, I offer coloured acrylics, gliter fades etc.

And yet my prices have not really changed atall since qualifying however my work has come a long way, I am 100% professional with my clients and would always aim to please them, if anything I struggle with doing giving anything less than my 100% and beat myself up over it:cry::cry:

It has been a tough few weeks for me as I am now at a point where Im struggling with being mobile/or salon based/ also my passion is nails however I feel sometimes I am undercutting myself, try and raise prices few pounds and get called greedy, I cant win.

Fed up now can honestly say in the whole 18months (wow yes long time) I feel defeated, should go back to my day job xx

 

[persianista]

I think we are fighting 3 fronts;
1. Our clients are being careful with money, so we have to work a bit harder to get them to spend, or accept we have to do more work for less money.

2. We are getting unprecedented competition from the "hobby" brigade who are undercutting, not declaring or on benefits and doing it for a little cash in hand.

3. For 13 years we had a government which was overtly anti business and crucified small business and self employed people with regulation and tax. We should not underestimate the impact this had on us as it has been proven that the service sector was overwhelmingly discriminated against.

 

[chimbabweep]

It is so hard to decide what to charge im opening my salo in a few weeks (its been delay after delay) I work from home at the moment charging £25. I live in a small town but there are a few other salon and they charge £30 a set.
As i live in a small town the rent is low and the clientell wont not be willing to pay anymore than £30.
Im stuck what to do ...do i stay and £25 or go up to £27? I dont think i want to open being £30 as i want to build my clientell up and i know of a few mobile techs charging £20.

The thing is last year i used to charge £20a set ( yes i know this was very cheap) but i was using a slightly cheaper product from now and i was doing it from home aswell so it was all profit. But now im moving to my salon i have to charge more. So when i put them up to £25 i said i done it as i am getting the shop. So when i actually start in the shop and if i charged £27 whats my excuse this time?

I also need help with pricing shelac and gellish? say if i charge £20 for a manicure (including massage, mask) how much extra would i charge if they decided to have a gellish or shellac instead of a normall polish.?

and how much would you charge to charge for the application..as in
Cuticle work, shape then gellish or shellac.

Should gellish be dearer as ive heard its more stronger and last a while longer? xx

 

[persianista]

You don't need an excuse. I wish everyone would stop apologising for trying to earn a living! When you get your car serviced does the mechanic apologise for charging you? Does the builder apologise for charging for his work? Does sky break down their costs for you to see? NO! They charge what they charge, and you like it or lump it.

Do you shop around for the very cheapest of everything? Do you expect people to do work for you at slumdog wages? So charge with confidence and ignore those who think you should work for free.

I had a very rich client tell me to halve my prices recently to "help people who are not getting much interest on their money" The stupid cow got her head burnt and an extra fiver on her bill for that.

 

[essentia]

You don't need an excuse. I wish everyone would stop apologising for trying to earn a living! When you get your car serviced does the mechanic apologise for charging you? Does the builder apologise for charging for his work? Does sky break down their costs for you to see? NO! They charge what they charge, and you like it or lump it.

Do you shop around for the very cheapest of everything? Do you expect people to do work for you at slumdog wages? So charge with confidence and ignore those who think you should work for free.

I had a very rich client tell me to halve my prices recently to "help people who are not getting much interest on their money" The stupid cow got her head burnt and an extra fiver on her bill for that.

Very true - this way of things is prevalent in our profession. I can only think that it because it has been traditionally female dominated and women expect to earn less maybe or do not deserve it somehow, one day courses, ease of getting equipment and products and the hobby brigade as you mentioned. I do not know of any other professions that charge so cheap for their services.

 

[persianista]

Very true - this way of things is prevalent in our profession. I can only think that it because it has been traditionally female dominated and women expect to earn less maybe or do not deserve it somehow, one day courses, ease of getting equipment and products and the hobby brigade as you mentioned. I do not know of any other professions that charge so cheap for their services.

When people were gleefully lapping up one day, no previous experience required, courses, it stopped being a profession.

Sorry, but how can we call spray tanning a profession when people can do a half day course!!

The ONLY way we can get to the point of charging properly is to include ALL aspects in a two year NVQ. No if or buts. ONLY nvq holders can be licenced to tan, nails etc. Invest 2 years and you will be allowed to practice and be insured.

Same with hair and extensions. No hobbyists or benefit cheats.

 

[chimbabweep]

Yeh i agreee with the courses i think yes its fine to do a course if you have spent time at college getting a qualification.
I spent 3 years at college doing beauty and then i done additional courses in nails,tanning eyelash extensions etc. But those who go on a 2 day course who have had no previous training then charge so little kill me.

Any answers on the gellish and shellac pricing xx

 

[Natjeeling]

From my point of view I have priced myself by what I feel is a reasonable charge for the services I offer.

There is so much competition out there, but as much as a cheap service could be an indicator of cheap products and poor service, as a customer I would expect an amazing experience, quality products and an excellent result if I was paying a more than average price for the area.

I think that pricing is really difficult but completely agree that your work sells itself.

My philosophy is too offer few services but do them well, rather than a large but poorly executed range of services.

Also as a comment on a previous reply some of the best treatments that I have received have been from therapists that have attended short courses and I have had some really poor experiences with NVQ qualified students.

I am sure that we will all agree that you start learning on a course but the invaluable lessons are learned by experience and practice. For me it's all about the attitude and the dedication on the therapist not whether they've been to college for a couple of years. That's not to do down the NVQ's though, I've done them myself.

 

[persianista]

From my point of view I have priced myself by what I feel is a reasonable charge for the services I offer.

There is so much competition out there, but as much as a cheap service could be an indicator of cheap products and poor service, as a customer I would expect an amazing experience, quality products and an excellent result if I was paying a more than average price for the area.

I think that pricing is really difficult but completely agree that your work sells itself.

My philosophy is too offer few services but do them well, rather than a large but poorly executed range of services.

Also as a comment on a previous reply some of the best treatments that I have received have been from therapists that have attended short courses and I have had some really poor experiences with NVQ qualified students.

I am sure that we will all agree that you start learning on a course but the invaluable lessons are learned by experience and practice. For me it's all about the attitude and the dedication on the therapist not whether they've been to college for a couple of years. That's not to do down the NVQ's though, I've done them myself.

I totally agree that short specialised courses produce superb results, and the hair/ beauty industry moves along fast, so they are great for learning new/latest treatments. My argument is that ALL practitioners who do hair/ beauty/ nails for money should complete an NVQ first, before they can specialise. Lets face it, someone doing a half day spray tan course is not a beauty pro in the same way that someone who has invested 2 years doing NVQ3 is. Yet for insurance purposes, you are the same.

If those of you in the industry wish to earn a living, and raise the status of beauty/ nails/ hair then you need to accept that nobody will think that you are a "professional" worth 50 quid an hour after a one/ two/ three day course.

For those entering the industry at the moment, I feel sad for you. You invested time and money, to be undercut by girls on benefits/cash in hand, and the salons are undercut too, so salaries are lower than they were 5 years ago.

I really fear for our industry with the way things are heading.

 

[Kayleighs Nail & Beauty Studio]

I have to totally agree with geeg , its a tough one to answer. There are too many cheap places out there with cheap products and ways of doing things , which undercut you and some people prefer to go for the cheaper option but ive always said you get what you pay for and clients who have tryed around salons trying to find the best nail tech , they always prefer to pay more cos they know the infills are going to last them 4weeks with no repairs.
iv had a client who has came to me for 3years and a new salon opened down the road charging £15 (which is just laughable) for a full set , said the girl is good and they last but find all her corners chipped , she came back to me and pays £29.00 again..
I dont know maybe these cheap places will always make money with new clients first timers but i think the experienced ones will keep going back to the more expensive salons.