Envy
Well-Known Member
Updated with UV vs LED lamp info
Hope it helps
Hope it helps
UV Product Summary
- Thread starter Envy
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geeg
Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
For those who are interested and want their clients to see this after the silly stupid TV shows and Newspaper articles that have been shown/printed with no factual evidence.
What about using a gel from a company that does not have their own branded UV/LED Lamp?
Or using a UV/LED Lamp from a company claiming their lamp cures all gels?
EG... IBD LED Lamp - IBD state this "Cures all LED Gels". However this is listed as "Coming Soon" on their official website even though they already have products listed as LED curable. So how can someone cure their Just Gel Polish range in an LED lamp if they have not yet released the lamp? And when they do release it, can Shellac, NSI, Jessica all be cured in their LED lamp?
EG... NSI UV Lamp - NSI state this is "Designed to cure any UV gel system or UV cured top coat". So can Biosculpture, Edge, IBD, Brisa all be cured in their UV Lamp?
Also, if you purchase a branded lamp, do you have to purchase all future bulb replacements from that company too? Surely one UV bulb is similar to another UV bulb?
Or using a UV/LED Lamp from a company claiming their lamp cures all gels?
EG... IBD LED Lamp - IBD state this "Cures all LED Gels". However this is listed as "Coming Soon" on their official website even though they already have products listed as LED curable. So how can someone cure their Just Gel Polish range in an LED lamp if they have not yet released the lamp? And when they do release it, can Shellac, NSI, Jessica all be cured in their LED lamp?
EG... NSI UV Lamp - NSI state this is "Designed to cure any UV gel system or UV cured top coat". So can Biosculpture, Edge, IBD, Brisa all be cured in their UV Lamp?
Also, if you purchase a branded lamp, do you have to purchase all future bulb replacements from that company too? Surely one UV bulb is similar to another UV bulb?
geeg
Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
1. CND Shellac isn't a gel and only the CND lamp is used with it.
2. UV bulbs vary considerably in the intensity of the output ... They are not the same at all.
Is it really so difficult to just buy the lamp for your system and to go on purchasing the correct bulbs for the lamp?
Why do so many FIGHT against doing this?
Do you think there is some giant company conspiracy to force you into buying the correct lamps and bulbs, or do you think that just maybe, the brand you use would like to recommend the things that will help their products work at their best, and help your business be successful ?
Use the whole system as recommended, because systems work best together ... That is the definition of a system is it not? :Love:
Angie's Nails
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand is how a gel can be both UV and LED curable, such as the new Bio Sculpture gels. How does that work, and are there any problems with having a gel that can be cured by either?
Envy
Well-Known Member
As explained in the original post. LED is just a different type of bulb that produces UV light. If a system offers both traditional bulb and LED bulb lamp options and has been tested and approved for matching lamps then it is fine to use either. Assuming you are using the lamps specified by the manufacturer with the instructions they give.
Of course. They must offer a matched lamp. There is still no such product that can work with 'any' lamp
Hths
Angie's Nails
Well-Known Member
Thanks Envy yes it does help. I didn't realise LED was still UV until I read your post so helps me understand. I still find it hard to understand that a pot of gel can be cured fast with an LED or slower with the original lamps. I never was any good at Science!
Melissa82
Well-Known Member
That's why it's good to learn the science behind it. Doug Schoon makes it pretty easy for us with his articles. Schoon Scientific Brochure of Beauty, Cosmetic and Personal Care industry consultation services by Schoon Scientific
geeg
Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
That is also why Envy makes it easy for us and it is his thread! xxx
Dnx
Well-Known Member
Very interesting reading. Thanks.
ladybird
Well-Known Member
It's great to be able to inform clients of the science behind the service 
. Many thanks!
. Many thanks!Envy
Well-Known Member
You're most welcome
Allen
Allen
laiyongcong
New Member
Thanks for sharing Allen
sallyyummymummy
Well-Known Member
This might seema silly question but does the age of the lamp matter as long as the bulbs are replaced regularly? My BioSculpture lamp is 7 years old as I've had it since I started. X
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Envy
Well-Known Member
Hi Sally
The age of the lamp is no issue (assuming it still is functioning properly and is well cleaned regularly)
As you mentioned changing the bulbs regularly is very important to ensure thorough cure
Hope that helps
Allen
sallyyummymummy
Well-Known Member
Thank you I thought that was the case. My lamp is starting to look tired but have been thinking that once I've used up all my black bio pots and have all new platinum pots I might switch to the led lamp rather than get a new uv lamp.
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Sent from my GT-I9100 using SalonGeek
geeg
Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
Dont forget that an LED lamp is still a UV lamp that just uses a different type of bulb (LED). Gels don't cure with out UV! :biggrin: The LED bulbs in nail lamps are also UV bulbs.
sallyyummymummy
Well-Known Member
So really theres not much point in going led. At the roadshow the other week they were selling it by saying it'll speed up the time it takes. But it'll still take me the same amount of time to apply the gel so may only save me a tiny amount of time. I'll stick with my old tired lamp for now & get a new one when I can justify the expense.
geeg
Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
Well it doesn't impress me! Might be convenient when doing my own nails .. But I am not just interested in a convenience for myself .. this is business. It will not be a huge advantage to my clients service time.
JTB
New Member
Envy,
Very good background information. As a nail tech who just graduated with a material science degree, it is fun to read about the "science" behind the services. Here is a bit of my take on this "science".
"*every single bulb on the market emits a slightly different strength of UV"
1. The UV that we speak of is about 400-100 nanometers. There is only one average strength (I am assuming you are talking about Energy) of UV, otherwise that light is X-ray, blue, infrared, etc, and not UV. If strength is Intensity, then it will only affect the rate of curing not the quality of the cure itself.
Maybe in your original post, but definitely in Schoon scientific brochure, there is mentioned of "intensity" and "wattage". I quote from his brochure "...the wattage of a bulb will remain the same, but UVA light “intensity” slowly degrades every time a UVA bulb is turned on".
Wattage will NOT remain the same
Intensity (I) is the energy density at a point times the velocity of the moving energy. Joules/meter^3 times meter/second equals to J/(m^2 * s). J/s is Watt, so I is Watt/Area. Hence, I is the measurement of the Wattage (Power) of the source over an given area (the surface of the inside of the lamp).
So if the (W) doesn't change, then how can (I) change? Well, 9W or 18W is how much power the bulb consumes, not how much power it gives off.
Joules is a unit of Energy. Einstein called quantized unit of light quanta or photons, and energy of photon is the (speed of light)/(wavelength of photon) times h (Planck's constant). The wavelength of interest is of course UVA, 400-300 nanometers. The UV light bulbs actually put out a few different frequencies of UV. We only want the UVA, which is similar to "black light". UV light bulb quality, for us nail people, is differentiate on the output of UVA, the resistant to decaying of electrodes, the material used and the overall design of the interior quartz.
So it doesn't matter if you have high Intensity of red light, your gel will not cure. Intensity here is specific only to UVA. The Intesity= J/(m^2 * s ), notice if J doesn't change then the quality of light (UVA) stays the same but the second increased, hence, the output wattage decrease per Area. Therefore, your gel will still cure but the RATE of which it will cure will be a lot slower.
"*every different chamber reflects differently and has a different distance."
2. This is true. So another poster posted a fact about "big hand and small hand". If I have a CND curing lamp and I use it on small hand, then I use it on a big hand. That will effectively change the "distance" of the same lamp. But I bet you don't measure the hands and place them accordingly do you? Hence, distance and reflective angles have little consequence to your services.
I understand the sentiment of just sticking with the system. I appreciate the ease and the manageability. But do I sense "scare tactics" or "snobbiness"? "are you the actual professional they should trust? Or are you experimenting on them whilst they give you money in good faith?
What do I do? I find my favorite gel and find out its cure rate by studying the stock light bulbs. I find the best UV bulbs that offer the most UVA range, with the longest possible resistance to degradation. I apply 3-4 fast and thinner layers, instead of the usual 2-ish...no heat-spike, last 4 weeks, best flexibility, etc.
And yes, I use the same Y lamp for many diff. gels. If I find a new gel, I would try it on myself. Remember the amplitude of a heat-spike is proportional to how much photo initiators, hence, if I feel a heat spike then that means there is too much gel on that nail for the lamp I am using. From the heat spike to "properly cured" is about 60 secs. The total cure time will be 60 secs plus whatever time elapsed before the heat spike. In addition, I would cut the amount of gel on that layer by half and apply 2 layers instead of one.
So I don't agree with your comment, "are you the actual...money in good faith". An analogy, you can go buy a computer already packaged or you can build your own. If you know what you are doing, then you computer will be better, faster, cheaper and you will enjoy your computer (or your job) so much more. If you are able to get something for cheaper and better, then your clients will also get the benefits. And ultimately, if you come up with the right formula, then you can brand your own computer (or UV gel product). Think of Steve Jobs.
Last note, another poster said "why FIGHT...and there is not a conspiracy". They are businesses that want to boost their sales, that in itself is a conspiracy. Again, for those who don't have the "science" background or don't want the headache then "systems" are fine. But for those like me, "systems" don't quite hit the right notes.
For my first post, I just want to point our few things. Sorry if my post sounds abrasive.
Very good background information. As a nail tech who just graduated with a material science degree, it is fun to read about the "science" behind the services. Here is a bit of my take on this "science".
"*every single bulb on the market emits a slightly different strength of UV"
1. The UV that we speak of is about 400-100 nanometers. There is only one average strength (I am assuming you are talking about Energy) of UV, otherwise that light is X-ray, blue, infrared, etc, and not UV. If strength is Intensity, then it will only affect the rate of curing not the quality of the cure itself.
Maybe in your original post, but definitely in Schoon scientific brochure, there is mentioned of "intensity" and "wattage". I quote from his brochure "...the wattage of a bulb will remain the same, but UVA light “intensity” slowly degrades every time a UVA bulb is turned on".
Wattage will NOT remain the same
Intensity (I) is the energy density at a point times the velocity of the moving energy. Joules/meter^3 times meter/second equals to J/(m^2 * s). J/s is Watt, so I is Watt/Area. Hence, I is the measurement of the Wattage (Power) of the source over an given area (the surface of the inside of the lamp).
So if the (W) doesn't change, then how can (I) change? Well, 9W or 18W is how much power the bulb consumes, not how much power it gives off.
Joules is a unit of Energy. Einstein called quantized unit of light quanta or photons, and energy of photon is the (speed of light)/(wavelength of photon) times h (Planck's constant). The wavelength of interest is of course UVA, 400-300 nanometers. The UV light bulbs actually put out a few different frequencies of UV. We only want the UVA, which is similar to "black light". UV light bulb quality, for us nail people, is differentiate on the output of UVA, the resistant to decaying of electrodes, the material used and the overall design of the interior quartz.
So it doesn't matter if you have high Intensity of red light, your gel will not cure. Intensity here is specific only to UVA. The Intesity= J/(m^2 * s ), notice if J doesn't change then the quality of light (UVA) stays the same but the second increased, hence, the output wattage decrease per Area. Therefore, your gel will still cure but the RATE of which it will cure will be a lot slower.
"*every different chamber reflects differently and has a different distance."
2. This is true. So another poster posted a fact about "big hand and small hand". If I have a CND curing lamp and I use it on small hand, then I use it on a big hand. That will effectively change the "distance" of the same lamp. But I bet you don't measure the hands and place them accordingly do you? Hence, distance and reflective angles have little consequence to your services.
I understand the sentiment of just sticking with the system. I appreciate the ease and the manageability. But do I sense "scare tactics" or "snobbiness"? "are you the actual professional they should trust? Or are you experimenting on them whilst they give you money in good faith?
What do I do? I find my favorite gel and find out its cure rate by studying the stock light bulbs. I find the best UV bulbs that offer the most UVA range, with the longest possible resistance to degradation. I apply 3-4 fast and thinner layers, instead of the usual 2-ish...no heat-spike, last 4 weeks, best flexibility, etc.
And yes, I use the same Y lamp for many diff. gels. If I find a new gel, I would try it on myself. Remember the amplitude of a heat-spike is proportional to how much photo initiators, hence, if I feel a heat spike then that means there is too much gel on that nail for the lamp I am using. From the heat spike to "properly cured" is about 60 secs. The total cure time will be 60 secs plus whatever time elapsed before the heat spike. In addition, I would cut the amount of gel on that layer by half and apply 2 layers instead of one.
So I don't agree with your comment, "are you the actual...money in good faith". An analogy, you can go buy a computer already packaged or you can build your own. If you know what you are doing, then you computer will be better, faster, cheaper and you will enjoy your computer (or your job) so much more. If you are able to get something for cheaper and better, then your clients will also get the benefits. And ultimately, if you come up with the right formula, then you can brand your own computer (or UV gel product). Think of Steve Jobs.
Last note, another poster said "why FIGHT...and there is not a conspiracy". They are businesses that want to boost their sales, that in itself is a conspiracy. Again, for those who don't have the "science" background or don't want the headache then "systems" are fine. But for those like me, "systems" don't quite hit the right notes.
For my first post, I just want to point our few things. Sorry if my post sounds abrasive.
