Creative Starter Kit for sale on E Bay!

[geeg]

Yesterday i was threatened with creatives legal department if i should import creatives products into MY country to sell to fully qualified nail tecnicians because i have been told by your family i am not supposed to have them .

Now in this post you are saying that it is up to the seller to who they sell the products to and even a lady can sell to her customer and there is nothing creative can do about it i am very confused that creatives legal department would come after someone like me that has on there website for PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY but will not and can do nothing to someone that is selling maybe into untrained hands .

My constructive comment in this post is to point out that it would be very nice if the professionals of this website could get there facts straight and then people like me would not get threatened or abused for something when you have 1 professional saying one thing and one professional saying another especially when they both come from the same family are in buissness and talk to eachother probably everyday .

I will not go into that you also are MAYBE are selling products to untrained nail techs yourself because you did not check that the public is allowed in the shows.

Hello Mui,

I would like to answer your post but I'm sure the Geek will have something to say too when he has the time to get round to reading it.

I think there is nothing confusing or contradictory when you think about what the geek said in his post. I am saying this in a soft voice with a smile on my face OK?

When he sais "there is nothing Creative can do about it" My understanding of what he is saying is .... How can Creative Nal Design possibly DO anything about a private individual selling products to private customers when they don't KNOW they are doing it. IF they KNEW it was going on, then they would do something, but until we set up the 'Nail Secret Police Squad' and 'undercover plain-clothes nail patrols' it would be impossible to KNOW wouldn't it?

However, when they do find out that someone is deliberately and knowingly selling their products (to professionals or not) who is not a recognised member of their distributor network, authorized by CND to sell those products, then the situation is different and they will do something about it.

In my experience at shows, when you get the public coming through the doors, they don't come to buy Liquid and powder, they buy retail items such as nail polish and hand and body lotions etc. Everyone likes a bargain! I don't see a problem with that (but I do wish the organizers wouldn't let the public in at any time.)
Sometimes at shows we will get technicians who will purchase a small amount of product to try it who haven't trained with Creative, but when they try to order larger amounts we find out then if they are qualified to purchase.

As for tehnicians selling L/P to their customers? I don't believe this is a big problem. To other technicians? I don't think this is much of a problem. On the whole Creative users are very proud of their training and the stand that has been taken to protect the brand and do not want to help others to abuse it. Most people do not want to be sneaky and prefer to get a certificate from Creative.

Crumbs, we wouldn't have time to help our customers if we spent every moment tracking down the odd individual who is going against the 'rules' so to speak. WE do what we can WHEN we can ... nothing is perfect, Mui.

I don't think there is any conflict in what Samuel said in his post. and I think the facts are all perfectly straight. I don't see the geek saying 'one thing and someone else saying another'. None of us had a good day yesterday ... lets hope today will be different and we will all stay smiling

 

[mui]

Mui - we have a distributor in Thailand - a SOLE distributor who earned the right to distribute Creative Nail Design products. You took it upon yourself to go via the back door and sell on your web site! I am not suprised in the least that Creative Nail Design (in Amersica - corporate) has had their legal department contact you! That however is nothing to do with me, or the post I made above regarding a Britsiah show and what goes on there!

Mrs geek

I would like to tell you that

1 NO creative legal department has contacted me but i am awaiting them to now as your husband kindly told me they would .

2 when i asked you in another thread if there was a creative distributor in Thailand you kindly told me yes but posted me an address in SINGAPORE that is 2 hours away on an aroplane NOT THAILAND .

3 This asian distributor does not have the sole rights to sell in THAILAND like you do not have the sole rights to sell all over europe Thailand is a part of asia as you are a part of europe.

4 My goverment will give anybody sole rights to sell there products in MY country as a distributor they will not give this to Thai people why will they give it to you .

5 in the post by your husband he says that is NOT illegal for people to sell creative products on ebay or to there customers so will you as asked in my last constructive post get your facts right between you your husband and your mother you must have many people confused .

6 As you well know because you probably read all the exchange of emails from me to your mother i have taken the creative products out of my website and if creatives legal department do not contact me i will contact them because it seems that between you your mother and your husband you do not know what is right or wrong in this matter because you all keep posting different things SAM LAST POSTED ITS NOT ILLEGAL but he speaks it pisses him off will you please all get your facts straight .

I did not intend posting for the rest of the day but feel it is only right to let you know the facts to your own mistake in the past that made me beleive that there was NO Thai distributor .

NOW MOST IMPORTANT i have ask your mother and your husband to send me the address of the creative distributor in THAILAND I will if any customers come to us for creative products send them to the distributor i will do this AFTER checking with my goverment that they are the only LEGAL allowed distributor in MY COUNTRY .

please do not send me the address of the distributor in singapore because they are NOT the legal distributor for the whole of asia i have checked already .

please post in this thread the legal sole distributor for MY COUNTRY in this thread i want to call them .

thank you and have a VERY good day i hope you feel better soon after your car accident .

For your information we no longer have interest in using or selling creative products my sister and me do not like this bullying and the bad feeling it brings when we were only looking for a product that was good for techs in my country as you know there are many companys that do not use these bullying ways when creatives legal department do conatct me i will post all on this website to show what trouble you and your mother have brought to me .

 

[geeg]

Mui, maybe it is you who should get your facts straight.

Creative can appoint a distributor in Singapor and also give them the right to sell in Thailand if they so wish. Creative UK also have the right to sell to Eire and the Channel Islands which are not part of the UK. Creative UK were also offerd Spain a few years ago but chose to stay more 'local'.

2ndly I did not send any of our correspondence yesterday to Samantha.

3rdly I have never spoken to CND in the USA about you distributing products.

4thly When Samuel uses the term 'Illegal' he is meaning 'Creative' illegal not that the government has passed 'nail' laws governing the sale of Creative goods!!

5thly The Thai government may not allow sole traders in Thailand but as far as CND are concerned, They do give the sole right to 1 distributor to sell in that area and that person can appoint a sub distributor if they wish to cover the area more locally. That sub distributor could maybe have been you if you had contacted them and asked them about it.

6thly no one is bullying you. You just don't want to play by the rules and don't like being told you can't have something you want. Like a child who crys and has tantrum when his toys are taken away from him because he is told he can't have them.

7thly I'm sure everyone finds all this as tedious as I do and hopes that you will now just let it go and get on with selling whatever other products you decide to sell and that you make a great success of it.

8thly As we are not giving you the information you want then it would be best for you to contact Creative directly yourself to find out who is the distributor in your area. You can do so through their website which Iam sure you know.

You started out today wanting to be calm and reasonable ... what happeed?

 

[mui]

Mui - we have a distributor in Thailand - a SOLE distributor who earned the right to distribute Creative Nail Design products in their country. You however took it upon yourself to go via the back door and sell direct on your web site! I am not suprised in the least that Creative Nail Design (in America - corporate) has had their legal department contact you! That however is nothing to do with me (or my family) - we don't own Creative - we distribute for them in the UK - just like Terri Lin distributes in Thailand!
Your post above has nothing to do with the post I made above regarding British trade shows and what goes on there! Also to clarify - people who sell on ebay have bought already from their local distributor and are selling it on...they are qualified to buy from us already and so it is incredibly hard to stop! You have not bought from your local distributor in Thailand and that is why you are in trouble with Creative Nail Design USA! This post is also written with a soft voice and hopes that maybe you have learned a valuable lesson from this experience! Have a better day today!

I will await for you to post address and phone number

Terri is NOT a Thai name lin sounds as a second name from china korea malaysia and they could be In Thailand we do have chinese and other asian people come here to live as we do from all countrys over the world and make them welcome but my goverment does not give sole rights to anyone .

Maybe you are speaking that creative will only sell to them direct in asia but they will not have sole rights to sell in my country it does NOT happen you are trying to bring western laws and bullying to asia .

I would like to see on the internet website from creative that it is illegal to buy and sell there products and i am sorry if i read sams post wrong but after reading it another 6 times it still says its not illegal .

MAYBE if we all stop talking about this it is better for every body as i have posted we have no interest in your products or company .

 

[mui]

Mui, maybe it is you who should get your facts straight.

Creative can appoint a distributor in Singapor and also give them the right to sell in Thailand if they so wish. Creative UK also have the right to sell to Eire and the Channel Islands which are not part of the UK. Creative UK were also offerd Spain a few years ago but chose to stay more 'local'.

2ndly I did not send any of our correspondence yesterday to Samantha.

3rdly I have never spoken to CND in the USA about you distributing products.

4thly When Samuel uses the term 'Illegal' he is meaning 'Creative' illegal not that the government has passed 'nail' laws governing the sale of Creative goods!!

5thly The Thai government may not allow sole traders in Thailand but as far as CND are concerned, They do give the sole right to 1 distributor to sell in that area and that person can appoint a sub distributor if they wish to cover the area more locally. That sub distributor could maybe have been you if you had contacted them and asked them about it.

6thly no one is bullying you. You just don't want to play by the rules and don't like being told you can't have something you want. Like a child who crys and has tantrum when his toys are taken away from him because he is told he can't have them.

7thly I'm sure everyone finds all this as tedious as I do and hopes that you will now just let it go and get on with selling whatever other products you decide to sell and that you make a great success of it.

You started out today wanting to be calm and reasonable ... what happeed?

Yes geeg you are right i am tired i am very very very very tired i have had a head ache for 2 days .

Best i go play with my son .

 

[geeg]

My voice is still soft Mui.

As far as I know ... Creative does not operate significantly differently to any other American Nail Company.

Each company has a network of distributors around the world who make a business of selling that company's products and hopefully education along with them.

If anyone could buy and sell those product willy nilly, it would be like a bazar
!! there would be no control of prices, anyone could charge aything, there would be wars between everyone.

Having an appointed network of distributors and sub distributors 'regularizes' things for the techncians and keeps things running smoothly by that company's guidelines.

It is the same policy for every country (not just Asian countries) and no one else is talking about bullying. Maybe these 'ways' are so differnet from the way Asians usually do business that it is this that is bothering you and making the 'west' appear to be like bullies. To us this is normal business practice. Maybe we are witnessing a clash of cultures ... in which case stop blaming CND who I don't think operate any differently to any other nail company except for the 'no education ... no product' thing.

 

[Jo Jo]

Erm... I feel I must just state I wasn't actually directing my 'show' question at purely Creative (Designer Nails), it was a general question about the whole show and ALL the distributors there, as Geeg rightly says however I assumed that the public would be buying L&P in droves but it makes more sense that they would be buying the retail goods, many thanks for answering my question, my brain can rest easy now! Jxx

 

[naturalnails]

All we can do is..........carry on doing what we are doing that is a brill job, edcuate ourself to the highest degree and don't buy even how ever tempting it might be , Creative from Ebay..............then at least there are 2340 no sales !!!!!!!!!

Just my thoughts xxxx

I agree with this Ruth - I have on one occasion contacted a seller to plead with them not to sell Perfect Powder on Ebay to just anyone and they agreed to take it off sale and sell it to me.

I have emailed a couple of recent bidders for powders to explain that I hope they understand that unless they are CND trained they will not be able to legitimately buy any more and also that if untrained they would not know that they needed the corresponding liquid to go with it which they would also not be able to legitimately buy - surprise, surprise, they did not reply LOL.

I had someone contact me ages ago who explained that she had bought some stuff on e-bay and wanted to know how to use it - I rest my case LOL.

 

[Kathryn]

Hi all

I've been watching the ebay threads with interest and as an employee of Trades Exhibitions, thought I'd better respond with regards to our shows.

As an exhibition organiser we do everything in our power to keep the general public out, but I think inevitably, with the volume of people the shows attract, there will always (unfortunately) be some people who slip through the net.

Although I agree that the big problem is with people turning up and paying on the door, we DO ask visitors to provide a business card if they haven't pre-registered and CTS (our registration company which provides the girls you see on the doors punching in details and distributing badges) are getting pretty good about enforcing this. I've already told our exhibition organiser that it would be good to step this up however.

We are cracking down and are actively policing (via show and our own security team) our strictly no under 16s allowed policy, and from this September at the Professional Beauty & Nails shows at ExCeL, and particularly at Professional Beauty North in Manchester in October where we are holding a nail and also a make-up competition, we are restricting student entry to final year students only. We are also asking them to turn up in uniforms – all in an effort to bring a degree of professionalism to the show and to make it easier to spot those who really shouldn't be there.

Just as our exhibitors rely on us to keep the general public out, we also rely on exhibitors to be self-policing and responsible in who they are selling to.

As Mrs Geek has pointed out, this is often virtually impossible on a stand which can be as busy as Creative's, but I think it is fair to say that while we promote the show heavily to ensure the likes of Designer Nails are swamped, this promotion is by and large TO TRADE ONLY.

The awareness of the Professional Beauty shows in the industry is huge and year on year we do TARGETED marketing campaigns to attract new salon owners, beauty therapists, techs and spa operators to the show, but I think its fair to say that the wider general public probably doesn't even know Professional Beauty exists. I am not ashamed to admit that I certainly didn't before I joined Trades Exhibitions (don't tell Mr Moloney that if you see him though!)

I will pass all your comments onto Mark though and see if he can't come up with a few ideas to crack down on this problem. I'll keep you posted.

Take care all and have a great weekend.

Thanks
Kat
Deputy Ed
Professional Nails (and one of many with a walkie talkie at the shows!)

 

[The Geek]

sheesh. I do wish we could really all get over this.

To quote my earlier post that you keep talking about and to try and bring some closure to this:

From my understanding; legally it is their product to sell just as you could buy a kit and sell it to your customer. It pisses me off but im not sure if anything can honestly be done about it.

That means: Based on my understanding, these individuals bought product legally through distributors that were contracted to sell to that individual. Based on my understanding that means that it is their property.

I do not recall her name, however I personally met the distributor for Thailand a couple of months ago. It is my understanding that she is contractually bound to to that specific area. Anyone else that sells product into that area is violating their own contract. This is not illegal, but they can be held for breach of contract and as a potential consequence, lose their contract to purchase products from CND.
It is my undertanding that even though you loathe CND, you are attempting to distribute the product range. My understanding of the problem is that you are purchasing diverted product which means that you are buying from someone who is violating their contract (this is how diversion works and how pro products end up in places like Walmart).

I never spoke to anyone in legal, in fact I have never spoken to anyone in HQ about you or your country. It was simply my understanding that there was a diversion issue that legal has been looking into. Maybe I have misunderstood that point.

I do not work for CND, nor their legal department. All I can do is tell you the points as I understand them.

And that is how I am understanding it. Maybe we could all do with a little bit more understanding huh?

 

[geeg]

Erm... I feel I must just state I wasn't actually directing my 'show' question at purely Creative (Designer Nails), it was a general question about the whole show and ALL the distributors there, as Geeg rightly says however I assumed that the public would be buying L&P in droves but it makes more sense that they would be buying the retail goods, many thanks for answering my question, my brain can rest easy now! Jxx

You know what?? The 'public' can buy L/P from Boots the chemist!! In small quantities. They are not going to attend show and pay $$$$$ for large quantity starter kits. I really believe this.

I don't think it is a matter of such concern that any company would be prepared to shell out loads of money on a 'nail mafia' to inspect every buyer at a show.

If someone wants CND products, Why not just do it the easy way and take a free class???

 

[Carole Lindsay]

Dont all shout me down here but as this seems to be getting acrimonious again, maybe it would be best for Sam to close this thread as well and leave it at that??

 

[Jo Jo]

Yeah, I see what you mean Geeg, I think what bugged me was just that (and it was my first show I must point out) I received a barrage of tickets from alot of directions and then was just a little shocked to see people 'public' paying to get in, I'm a very 'literal' person, sort of black and white and I have trouble with grey areas so when the tickets and advertising stated 'PROFESSIONALS ONLY' my naive brain couldn't cope with it! :lol: I (ok my father payed..) alot of money for me to be educated by CND amongst others to have the privilege to use their products (and a better understanding), you don't have to do that to buy L&P from Boots and it was just something that crept under my skin and stayed there and now I have my answer and I see I (in my mind) had visions of people buying up enormous amounts of L&P and having a jolly good laugh at those of us who have paid for good education but like I said, it makes more sense that they are buying polishes and creams etc.. Unfortunately I won't be able to go to the shows this year otherwise I'd sign up for the 'Nail Police' does the job come with a fancy uniform?? Jxx

 

[geeg]

I think we are getting nicely back on topic and it is a subject that many have had concerns about, not the least of which are the nail companies.

I find Kathryn's post very enlightening and am thankful the thread was still open to hear what she had to say.

It is great that Trades Exhibitions keeps an eye on the site to be able to answer quetions and concerns. Well done to them. Thanks Kat.
I am especialy glad to hear that children and the dreaded push chairs will be a thing of the past. Nightmare!!

 

[Carole Lindsay]

I think we are getting nicely back on topic and it is a subject that many have had concerns about, not the least of which are the nail companies.

I find Kathryn's post very enlightening and am thankful the thread was still open to hear what she had to say.

It is great that Trades Exhibitions keeps an eye on the site to be able to answer quetions and concerns. Well done to them. Thanks Kat.
I am especialy glad to hear that children and the dreaded push chairs will be a thing of the past. Nightmare!!

Yeah, well if it stays on topic of course its interesting to all of us! I for one have never been to a show before and am so looking forward to my first one in September. I'm sure i'll manage to make a big dent in my credit card!!!

 

[julieanne27uk]

Please don't shout at me, but I must confess that I have been to a Beauty exhibition at GMEX in Manchester, before I did my nail training, when I was just a member of Joe Public about 3 or 4 years ago.:o This is what got me interested in nails in the first place. My friend was attending as she does aromatherapy and indian head massage. She took me as a 'guest', as she did not want to go alone. As we wondered around, I watched demo's being performed by professionals from nail companies. I was enthralled and decided I wanted to learn how to do it too. I enrolled at college to do my VTCT a month or two later and have now just booked my place on Octobers Creative conversion course.

I would not of dreamt of buying professional products at the show and 'having a go' myself, as it was obvious from watching that it is a highly skilled profession needing a high level of education. It would of been a waste of money and I would of been disheartened if my attempts had gone pear shaped (which they would have).

Hopefully now I've done some training and when I have completed my creative conversion, I will be able to go to a show ligitimately as a trained nail tech and spend loads of money to my hearts content!:biggrin:

 

[geeg]

Please don't shout at me, but I must confess that I have been to a Beauty exhibition at GMEX in Manchester, before I did my nail training, when I was just a member of Joe Public about 3 or 4 years ago.:o This is what got me interested in nails in the first place. My friend was attending as she does aromatherapy and indian head massage. She took me as a 'guest', as she did not want to go alone. As we wondered around, I watched demo's being performed by professionals from nail companies. I was enthralled and decided I wanted to learn how to do it too. I enrolled at college to do my VTCT a month or two later and have now just booked my place on Octobers Creative conversion course.

I would not of dreamt of buying professional products at the show and 'having a go' myself, as it was obvious from watching that it is a highly skilled profession needing a high level of education. It would of been a waste of money and I would of been disheartened if my attempts had gone pear shaped (which they would have).

Hopefully now I've done some training and when I have completed my creative conversion, I will be able to go to a show ligitimately as a trained nail tech and spend loads of money to my hearts content!:biggrin:

I don't think your experience is unique and I'm sure many have been inspired to enter the industry through attending shows as a 'guest'. As long as we know who the guests are, this is no bad thing and if they want to get a few bargains on the day then what's the big problem? AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE CLEARLY ON THEIR BADGES AND ALL THE SUPPLIERS TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND DO NOT SELL PRO PRODUCTS TO THEM.

However ... this wouldn't happen. We all know it wouldn't happen. At These shows it is heinously expensive to have a booth and sellers want to get their money back ... They would do it (sell to the public) I know they would!! NOt everyone takes the CND line. Even the wholesale outlets sell to the public the products some of you are using.

MANY hairdressers buy nail products from the wholeslers without knowing the slightest thing. Even I used to buy nail products from the wolesale Sallys near me before I was trained. They let anyone do it without many (or any) questions asked.

This is the reson you will never see CND in a wholesale outlet like Sallys in the UK. To protect our professional's business.

 

[Sammie]

Hi

I would just like to add, going back to the general public getting in to the exibitions. That i noticed before olympia this year that there were lots of registration forms on sale at ebay for people to buy even though the tickets are free. Is this wrong to put these on ebay??????


Sammie

 

[Cathie!]

The ebay question again. At the end of the day it's a case of simple economics, supply and demand. CND products are in demand and people who can't officially buy them will pay, so, they will command a high price...wish I could put a graph on here.

Same goes for tickets for shows.

We live in the free world where we can sell our goods to the highest bidder. Heck, I had a glasto ticket for which I paid £119, couldn't go cos my mum couldn't make it for babysitting (have to jealously say that hubby is there right now with our eldest and it's not even raining and oasis are playing tonight...jealous or what), I sold it for £250. If demand is high and supply is low then the price will be high and people will pay.

Trying to get back to my point...if the demand is there, there will always be charlatans and greed..maybe I'm a charlatan for selling my ticket for a profit? Yes I am.

 

[Sammie]

In your case i see as being a bit different to buying tickets to a professional show. You, you paid good money for your ticket and sold it for a good price, but it was for something that is open to everybody. These are professional shows and therefore should be for professionals..........


Sammie

The ebay question again. At the end of the day it's a case of simple economics, supply and demand. CND products are in demand and people who can't officially buy them will pay, so, they will command a high price...wish I could put a graph on here.

Same goes for tickets for shows.

We live in the free world where we can sell our goods to the highest bidder. Heck, I had a glasto ticket for which I paid £119, couldn't go cos my mum couldn't make it for babysitting (have to jealously say that hubby is there right now with our eldest and it's not even raining and oasis are playing tonight...jealous or what), I sold it for £250. If demand is high and supply is low then the price will be high and people will pay.

Trying to get back to my point...if the demand is there, there will always be charlatans and greed..maybe I'm a charlatan for selling my ticket for a profit? Yes I am.