Dismissing an Employee - trouble ahead

[Lynne Baker]

She can be paid one week's notice in lieu.
I appreciate that it's never easy to give bad news to your staff, but really, you're the boss, you MUST learn to deal with awkward situations!
Yes, it's horrid. People generally don't want to be the "bad guy", but you really can't have someone else do your dirty work for you! Imagine what's happened to your credibility in the eyes of your other staff. They'll take you for everything if they see that you can't deal with confrontation.
You could do worse than get some training on personnel management before you find yourself in even more difficult situations.

 

[Gilly T]

Crikey what a terrible situation. I really hope there hasn't been any trouble.

I was just wondering why anyone would think that the girls mum would cause any kind of physical damage or trouble. I'm inclined to agree with 'Chelle that if I were her mum I would have done the same thing. I think she was just giving an opportunity for it to be done in a different manner giving a 'reason' for the dismissal. I hope they haven't proved me wrong on this.

I don't know a lot about employment law but I would have to say that I think the girl should be entitled to take someone with her even if it isn't her mum's business.. I know that at meetings such as this as my previous job in HR people were encouraged to take representation with them.

Hope everything got sorted out.

 

[Susie H]

Crikey what a terrible situation. I really hope there hasn't been any trouble.

I was just wondering why anyone would think that the girls mum would cause any kind of physical damage or trouble. I'm inclined to agree with 'Chelle that if I were her mum I would have done the same thing. I think she was just giving an opportunity for it to be done in a different manner giving a 'reason' for the dismissal. I hope they haven't proved me wrong on this.

I don't know a lot about employment law but I would have to say that I think the girl should be entitled to take someone with her even if it isn't her mum's business.. I know that at meetings such as this as my previous job in HR people were encouraged to take representation with them.

Hope everything got sorted out.

No hun this came up before, the mum is not a nice woman:irked:
And I have to say it again, you have to let your kids grow up, if they are old enough to get a job then they have to be old enough to hold it down.
Yes they should always be able to come to you for advise and support but you do not have the right to get involved in someone eases employment issues. Unless you are their union rep. or equivalent.
A few years ago Paul and I hired a young girl with a huge amount of potential and in the end had her escorted of the premises with a security guard. She cost us £50,000 in a lost contract and I had to warn her mother that if she contacted us again I would have a restraining order placed on her.
Please don't spoil your kids, teach them responsibility for their own actions and that there are concisenesses for those actions before they get into the work place.
I have never been sacked. I have been made redundant twice and both times it was because the company had stopped trading and both times my reference made me blush and cry because it said such nice things.
She should be ashamed of herself not trying to get her mother to bully her ex boss.


Just read the last bit back I don't mean sacked in the normal sorry got to let you go because I mean sacked because of my behavior or because I was not pulling my weight, so please for anyone who has been sacked for reasons that were not their fault, I was not digging at you or sneering at you. To me loosing a job for something out of your control is different to being sacked because you constantly take the mick or are dishonest.

 

[Gilly T]

No hun this came up before, the mum is not a nice woman:irked:
And I have to say it again, you have to let your kids grow up, if they are old enough to get a job then they have to be old enough to hold it down.
Yes they should always be able to come to you for advise and support but you do not have the right to get involved in someone eases employment issues. Unless you are their union rep. or equivalent.
A few years ago Paul and I hired a young girl with a huge amount of potential and in the end had her escorted of the premises with a security guard. She cost us £50,000 in a lost contract and I had to warn her mother that if she contacted us again I would have a restraining order placed on her.
Please don't spoil your kids, teach them responsibility for their own actions and that there are concisenesses for those actions before they get into the work place.
I have never been sacked. I have been made redundant twice and both times it was because the company had stopped trading and both times my reference made me blush and cry because it said such nice things.
She should be ashamed of herself not trying to get her mother to bully her ex boss.


Just read the last bit back I don't mean sacked in the normal sorry got to let you go because I mean sacked because of my behavior or because I was not pulling my weight, so please for anyone who has been sacked for reasons that were not their fault, I was not digging at you or sneering at you. To me loosing a job for something out of your control is different to being sacked because you constantly take the mick or are dishonest.

Yeah.. I didn't realise that her mum was like that. Hope everything was ok. Think if my daughter was being a pain in the a**e then I'd let her deal with it herself but still think i'd be irked if she got the sack over the phone.. but that's just me

I used to be a unison shop steward and from what I remember, your representative didn't have to be a union rep, some people aren't in a union but should still be entitled to take someone with them. The fact her mum's like that shines a different light on it a bit though. I'd be petrified if it was me.

Think I'll try to avoid employing people if I can help it in the future... long way off that yet though

 

[geeg]

Seems to me I remember telling you the decision to take her back would come back to haunt you!!!

I have no sympathy at all for this girl. She is a salon Junior in a small salon for crumbs sake not an employee of ICI . You have/had reason to believe she was stealing from you. It seems both you and your husband have the right to sack her.

If she comes to the salon just tell her shes sacked and why and then tell her to leave.

 

[Susie H]

Seems to me I remember telling you the decision to take her back would come back to haunt you!!!

I have no sympathy at all for this girl. She is a salon Junior in a small salon for crumbs sake not an employee of ICI . You have/had reason to believe she was stealing from you. It seems both you and your husband have the right to sack her.

If she comes to the salon just tell her shes sacked and why and then tell her to leave.

Dear Gigi, how would you like to have a side line business? When ever some one is shaking in there shoes could they pay you do do the evil deed :green:
Sorry that was childish of me:lol:
But I cant think of anyone better for counciling others on assertiveness in and out of the work place I sometimes think thats the hardest bit of having your own place, standing up to the people who want to run things for you iykwim

 

[geeg]

Dear Gigi, how would you like to have a side line business? When ever some one is shaking in there shoes could they pay you do do the evil deed :green:
Sorry that was childish of me:lol:
But I cant think of anyone better for counciling others on assertiveness in and out of the work place I sometimes think thats the hardest bit of having your own place, standing up to the people who want to run things for you iykwim

I'll tell you what .. I learned the hard way. No one likes confrontation (me included) but it only comes back to bite you in the butt if you shy away from it instead of tackling it head on.

I once sacked a girl for stealing and then gave her a 2nd chance ... guess what ?? she stole again even MORE. I only had to deal with her again when I should have dumped her once and for all after the first incident. Seems when you help people they only resent you for it or think you are weak instead of kind and then they do you again. It has happened to me more than once but it is hard to change your basic nature.

Many on here think I am a toughy but actually I am not, I'm quite a kind person I think ... I hope ... most who know me would say so I think. But I do not shy away from 'issues' just because they are a bit sensitive or confrontational and I 'do not suffer fools' .

 

[Kim Lawless]

Many on here think I am a toughy but actually I am not, I'm quite a kind person I think ... I hope ... most who know me would say so I think. But I do not shy away from 'issues' just because they are a bit sensitive or confrontational and I 'do not suffer fools' .

Yes you are all of those things and more Geeg.

As a person who is outspoken and direct myself (and kind too), I find that everybody loves it when I'm speaking up for them. However, when the S**T hits the fan, they all run for the hills.

Stand up and be counted, that's what I say. xxx

 

[Cathie!]

:hug:Good luck mate, staff who don't have the same values as you are the only issues in the salon, the occasional moaning client is a walk in the park.

Hope it all works out well for you :hug:

Just to add, I totally agree with Gigi, you give so much train them up and they they go and crap all over you....take the skills you taught them to another salon, where they will do exactly the same thing to that salon owner that they did to you....I know, I've been there too.

 

[sazzanne]

What happened hun?

Hope it all went ok and you didnt need to call the fuzz....xxx

 

[debs69]

hi everyone
I thought i'd just let you know what happened today !
I read all your advice and decided that writing the reason down in a formal letter to the junior was the best way to go, her and her mom came in i took them in the back and gave her the letter, they read it, i apologised to her mom about hubby calling, because i did feel quite bad about it. There was no trouble at all.
I have learnt though I shall not be a coward again, but the girl in question is very manipulative, sulks a lot and pleads about being chucked out of home, she puts you on a guilt trip etc etc... now she's gone I have promised myself I wont get too close to another member of staff again !

I'd also like to say to those of you who said I was wrong in what I had done (I do know I was a woos), thankyou for your views, but she had stole from the till a few hundred quid over a couple of months, jewellery from a stylist, money from another, none of this I could prove but we all knew it was her. Her mom was always kicking her out, she has stayed at my house, my managers house, we've fed her and looked after her when her mom couldn't be bothered ! I think maybe her mom thought she could get to me (and compensation ?) if they could take it to a tribunal/court.
She was always arguing on the salon floor, she was sometimes rude to clients, she would write ghosts in the book, turn custom away. She had been given several verbal warning and a written warning, and only worked for me for 8 months, so I know I followed procedure correctly.

 

[debs69]

Seems to me I remember telling you the decision to take her back would come back to haunt you!!!

I have no sympathy at all for this girl. She is a salon Junior in a small salon for crumbs sake not an employee of ICI . You have/had reason to believe she was stealing from you. It seems both you and your husband have the right to sack her.

If she comes to the salon just tell her shes sacked and why and then tell her to leave.

I must of been crazy, but lesson learnt, ha ha:lol:, thanx for being wise, I shall be from now on belive me !!!

 

[lucy_locket]

Glad it all went well for you today.
:hug:

 

[lizzie27]

omg having a relatively new salon myself......this scares me to death!!!!
all the best in the future xxxx

 

[aliceellen1974]

glad you got it sorted in the end - its horrible worrying about a situation.
keep your chin up hun, you dealt with it how you thought best at the time xxxxx:hug:

 

[hippy-chick]

glad it went well. also its good to have something like this on geek as it reminds us to follow correct procedure.

LOL at Geeg!

 

[gem3000]

is the reason for sacking her realistic?
is her mum angry because its not?
just say i am sorry but i am having to let you because of this..........
sorry about the confusion in managment but my partner is also in charg of the buisiness therefore he has the right to release staff.

 

[thg]

great you did well. lesson learnt.
we have these obstacles in our lives. and 9 times out of 10 we learn from them. thg

 

[izzidoll]

hi everyone
I thought i'd just let you know what happened today !
I read all your advice and decided that writing the reason down in a formal letter to the junior was the best way to go, her and her mom came in i took them in the back and gave her the letter, they read it, i apologised to her mom about hubby calling, because i did feel quite bad about it. There was no trouble at all.
I have learnt though I shall not be a coward again, but the girl in question is very manipulative, sulks a lot and pleads about being chucked out of home, she puts you on a guilt trip etc etc... now she's gone I have promised myself I wont get too close to another member of staff again !

I'd also like to say to those of you who said I was wrong in what I had done (I do know I was a woos), thankyou for your views, but she had stole from the till a few hundred quid over a couple of months, jewellery from a stylist, money from another, none of this I could prove but we all knew it was her. Her mom was always kicking her out, she has stayed at my house, my managers house, we've fed her and looked after her when her mom couldn't be bothered ! I think maybe her mom thought she could get to me (and compensation ?) if they could take it to a tribunal/court.
She was always arguing on the salon floor, she was sometimes rude to clients, she would write ghosts in the book, turn custom away. She had been given several verbal warning and a written warning, and only worked for me for 8 months, so I know I followed procedure correctly.

Aah!! Knowing the full details makes a difference!!

If I were you though I would still cover my back for future incidents and join the Federation of small businesses....for a reasonable annual fee you will have access to all sorts of advice and Employment lawyers who will keep you right, Peace of mind basically!

Glad you have it resolved.

 

[geeg]

FSB is a great organisation but I am thinking it is a bit much for a small salon and not needed. Depends on the number of employees. But it doesn't cost to much to join and they are there with all the advice you need when you need it.

It was my understanding that if you have every right to sack someone who has only worked for you under 1 year without worries about tribunals and the like. I will check with Kate our HR friend and collegue ... Kate knows ALL.

Right ... I have just phoned Kate and she says, If an employee has worked for you for under 1 year then you can pretty much ask them to leave without having to go into too many reasons why. Her advise is to keep it simple. Say it isn't working out or the position is now redundant .. you don't need them etc. Give them 2 weeks pay and say ta ta. Better than a sacking to make them redundant.

An employee still has the right to go to a tribunal for unfair dismissal but most likely wouldn't. It is not an easy process and usually costs them more than they would get out of it.

My advice to those of you who employ others is (from much experience over 15 years) treat them with respect and formal friendliness but ... quietly watch EVERYTHING and don't just allow them to access your till or your stock cupboard or client records at will. Employees have to earn that priviledge. Most of us tend to give away too much too quickly and trust way too soon.