Employee & angry father!

[craig_studio17]

My sentiments exactly and I seriously believe you would've avoided a lot of this hassle had you just paid the girl what she should've been paid. It seems to me that she was messed around left,right and centre over her wages because of your mistakes and unwillingness to pay her what she clearly should have been paid.

This girl worked a day for you without pay,there's not many people who would've accepted this and not spoken up unless they were just thankful to get the job or too young and naive to speak up.

Letting someone work for a days trial on paying clients but not paying them isn't fair at all. Easy money for the employer I would say. A trades test should be the deciding factor on if you take them on.

Anyway, enough said. I'm just glad she got the money that she deserved, even if it was totally wrongly dealt with on all counts.

Without getting back into anything, she wasn't messed around, I'm sure you will agree that as human beings we're allowed a mistake here and there, especially when doing something new. In fact I'm quite glad I made the mistake otherwise I wouldn't have learnt anything!

As I said above, I certainly wasn't looking to make any 'easy' money. I'm trying to build a sustainable business which not only offers a professional service, but keeps people in jobs. My Staff are a big part of helping us do this and the girls which are there now completely understand this.

First and foremost my business is all about offering a professional service. Not making money! Making money is easy, offering a professional service which people want to use time upon time again is a difficult task! To do this I need professional staff who understand this concept.

I in no way shape or form messed this girl around, when I made the mistake in her hours she had worked I immediately held my hands up and admitted to it and fixed it!... No qualms, no nothing... I done it! Mistake made, LESSON LEARNT!!! Will it happen again? No!

Thanks

Craig

 

[BABSann]

It apears to me that you have not read the whole thread or if you did then you either missed or chose to ignore the fact that the girl was 100% aware that her trial day would be unpaid before she did it and therefore she should not be expecting to be paid for it.

In this industry where there are so many people looking for work and so few jobs it is an employers right to ask for a trial day and if they clearly say it will be unpaid you have the choice to say yes you will do it or no you won't.

If you really want the job then you will do it, and there are many places that have these unpaid trial days.

I don't see how she was continually messed around either, there was 1 mishap with her wages that was sorted quickly once pointed out, there was no need for her dad to get involved.

I'm really glad the issue is resolved for you Craig and I hope you never need deal with similar people again.

I know what the employers rights are and why should it be their right to expect someone to work for nothing? Yet the employer makes money?

Our view is expecting someone to work on paying clients for a day without being paid is wrong. Incidently its not the norm that people don't get paid for trial days. Generally therapists are asked to do a trades test after their interview then from that they are taken on on a 3 month trial period. The trades tests have always been carried out on non paying models and nothing is made from this and no wage is paid therefore fairer all round.

It seems to me that this is a way of making something for nothing.

Really wanting the job should not mean people have to accept not being paid and I for one would certainly not work an entire day on paying clients without being paid no matter how much I wanted the job.

Anyway, this is kind of going off track and I have given my opinion based on the fact that Craig is new to the industry wheras I am not. I am merely pointing out my opinion and should it have been one of my children I too would be far from happy, though I certainly would not have resorted to threatening behaviour of getting personally involved, as I previously stated.

 

[BABSann]

Without getting back into anything, she wasn't messed around, I'm sure you will agree that as human beings we're allowed a mistake here and there, especially when doing something new. In fact I'm quite glad I made the mistake otherwise I wouldn't have learnt anything!

As I said above, I certainly wasn't looking to make any 'easy' money. I'm trying to build a sustainable business which not only offers a professional service, but keeps people in jobs. My Staff are a big part of helping us do this and the girls which are there now completely understand this.

First and foremost my business is all about offering a professional service. Not making money! Making money is easy, offering a professional service which people want to use time upon time again is a difficult task! To do this I need professional staff who understand this concept.

I in no way shape or form messed this girl around, when I made the mistake in her hours she had worked I immediately held my hands up and admitted to it and fixed it!... No qualms, no nothing... I done it! Mistake made, LESSON LEARNT!!! Will it happen again? No!

Thanks

Craig

I apologise for saying she was continually messed around. I was getting threads mixed up.
Anyway, glad its sorted though I stand by my comments on not working for a day without being paid. I'm sure there's many other people who will accept this and this is their issue not mine.

 

[jcpark]

The reason for this is simple. She was told that it was to be an unpaid day. The reason I wanted her (and the rest of my staff) to complete a full day was to see exactly how they presented themselves as well as see how their skills are as hairdressers or beauticians. People act differently depending on what type of situation they are in. I wanted to see what their mornings routine was as well as customer interaction, handling pressure, upselling and so on. It wasn't so that I could get a free days labour out of anyone. If I'm to invest in someone then I want to know exactly what they can do for my business. It may seem a little extreme to ask someone to complete an entire day for a trial, however one of the lessons which I've learned is that one day isn't enough. That's not to say that I will be asking any future trialists to complete an entire week unpaid it just means that my interview process needs to be a little better.

Another reason why I grudged it was because of the manner in which she demanded it from us. If someone told you to give them £50 (for talking sake) otherwise they're going to punch you, would you really want to give it to them?? My integrity took a little hit and being an ex-soldier my integrity means a lot to me!

However I do understand that in this instance it was beneficial to my business, we're just about 1 month old and having people in my shop scaring my customers and staff is something which every business doesn't need or want! If paying out a few quid meant that the case was closed, then it was worth it!

Thanks

Craig

I appreciate (and did read) that she had agreed to it, but was really questioning why this sort of thing is thought acceptable. A trade test on a member of staff (or other non paying 'guinea pig' I can understand. In fact, I would think this preferable to being unleashed on a client without knowing how good she was. I can also understand that you would want to see how she was with clients etc, but to do a days work on paying customers does seem a little unjust. I employ therapists (purely massage and holistic on a self employed basis) and I do ask for a trade test, but otherwise, they are payed. Our staff are such an important part of our business that it pays to look after them and treat them accordingly.

 

[jcpark]

It apears to me that you have not read the whole thread or if you did then you either missed or chose to ignore the fact that the girl was 100% aware that her trial day would be unpaid before she did it and therefore she should not be expecting to be paid for it.

In this industry where there are so many people looking for work and so few jobs it is an employers right to ask for a trial day and if they clearly say it will be unpaid you have the choice to say yes you will do it or no you won't.

If you really want the job then you will do it, and there are many places that have these unpaid trial days.

I don't see how she was continually messed around either, there was 1 mishap with her wages that was sorted quickly once pointed out, there was no need for her dad to get involved.

I'm really glad the issue is resolved for you Craig and I hope you never need deal with similar people again.

I did read the thread, and realise it had been agreed first, but was just querying why this is deemed acceptable. I'm not sure that the fact there are a surplus of therapists going after so few jobs gives a business the moral right to ask for therapists to work on paying clients unpaid. Just my personal opinion, but I do think staff are such a key part of our business that it is important that they feel valued and respected. I'd be happy to do a trade test for the owner/collegue) so my skills could be assessed, but I would be pretty fed up if I had to work on paying customers for nothing knowing the owner would be making money on me. It just seems to me to be a negative start to an employer/employee relationship.

 

[craig_studio17]

I appreciate (and did read) that she had agreed to it, but was really questioning why this sort of thing is thought acceptable. A trade test on a member of staff (or other non paying 'guinea pig' I can understand. In fact, I would think this preferable to being unleashed on a client without knowing how good she was. I can also understand that you would want to see how she was with clients etc, but to do a days work on paying customers does seem a little unjust. I employ therapists (purely massage and holistic on a self employed basis) and I do ask for a trade test, but otherwise, they are payed. Our staff are such an important part of our business that it pays to look after them and treat them accordingly.

I can see where you are coming from and perhaps this is where I differ a little being an "outsider" coming in if you like. I do find an unpaid trial day acceptable as I have done them myself for previous roles. I always accepted that my main goal on these days was to be successful on securing the position.

To give you an example of this, back in just October 2011 when I lived and worked in London I was considering a career change. I was a Construction Professional and wanted to become a Stock Market Trader. The company which I had applied to asked me to go to Gatwick for a trial day. The day would last from 11am to 8pm. I was tested on my abilities as a salesman and my ability to think on my feet. This included remembering a 3 page script designed to get as much information as possible out of potential buyers and getting on the phones to live clients. Cold clients who had never been in touch with this company before and asked to sell them stock worth thousands! Did I sell? Yes... Did I get the job? No... Did I get paid... No! Did I kick up a fuss?... No? On the contrary I thanked them for the opportunity, asked when the next trial day was and what I should do differently in order to secure a position with them... They gave me some feedback and I left.

This is part of the reason why I thought an unpaid trial day was all part of the interview process and after all I wouldn't ask my staff to do anything I wouldn't do or haven't done.

Thanks again for everyones feedback!!

Craig

 

[izzidoll]

This thread seems to veering off topic and is now becoming a debate on whether unpaid trial days are right or wrong, which is possibly worthy of a thread all of its own
As the main question about the angry father has been dealt with and thankfully resolved without any punching I think it is maybe time to close this thread.