Hi... I'm Tinxy and I'm one of the "horrid" one day coursers! :)

[Tinxy]

Sorry but I wanted my OWN moan - everyone else is always criticising the therapists who have only done one day courses and frankly it really upsets me...

I've done an ITEC in massage and A&P and a day course in waxing and a day course in spray tanning - Some argue I am not one of the one day brigade but I FEEL like I am... I didn't do an NVQ after all

As I've said - I do think everyone should have to do A&P - be that distance learning and then an exam like ITEC I don't care... However I am willing to bet that if you were to ask people who did their NVQs 5-10 years ago to sit the ITEC A&P test a very large majority wouldn't answer enough to pass... so should they still be allowed to practise? Just because someone can reel off the theory does not mean they understand how to apply it either...

I don't profess to have a solution, but to judge everyone I find deeply unfair... Infact it's kind of on par with the biased views I've been fighting for my entire career - guess what? women CAN'T possibly be IT engineers... nor can they possibly manage accounts over a certain value and they DEFINITELY can't be expected to KNOW anything more than the men in the industry... well...

I said :lick: to those attitudes, and those who claimed you could only do good if you had a uni degree (in anything btw... didn't matter if it was relevant!) and I proved not only could I be a great hardware engineer in a field with very few women globally, I then ran a european support team in a totally different field and did well, and then I changed branch again and took on the company's most feared customer and turned the account around... I finally gave up this year because I realised I had nothing left to prove... an uneducated mum COULD play with the big boys and beat them... now I want to do something I love, working with people not always making assumptions about my abilities because I am blonde, have a baby seat in my car and have big boobs and because I want to learn new things, try new things and I want to be GOOD at them. I don't make assumptions about other therapists because they did an NVQ, or because they learnt at one institute rather than another...

I DO make some rather unflattering assumptions about those carrying out treatments of ANY sort that they have NOT obtained a qualification for and are not insured to carry out... but other than that I do try to only judge based on evidence... it's a newfangled way of thinking but I hear it's catching on in the legal prosecution field so heck... I'll give it a go

*steps off her soap box and dives for cover*

 

[cathill]

Wow erm blimey!! Full on dude!

 

[FlawlessBeauty]

I'm sorry you feel that you've been looked down upon Tinxy.

I think that therapists are actually more irritated by the people that don't do any courses but buy off ebay and speculate at how easy our jobs are and then try and undercut existing businesses.

I have a BTEC but did a couple of day courses too...one also being spray tanning. I don't think there's more than a day's worth of learning in that one, lol. I agree with you that there needs to be a basis of A&P for someone to really understand the body part they are working on and a lot of day courses don't cover this well enough. Often there isn't enough information on trouble solving or contra-indications too so i think you do have to be careful which company you train with.

I don't think anyone was intentionally being insulting, but i for one know that i've done at least one day course and then thought, wow, should've gone for something more involved....hopefully others will see this before embarking on a course and it will help them to research it a bit better instead of assuming they are all the same xx

 

[*Lisa-Marie*]

*applauds*

 

[besthands]

Tinxy, i would enjoy working together with you on the same team!! Very refreshing! You go girl!

 

[izzidoll]

It is always unfair to generalise and judge a category of people.

I thought you put your points across well in the thread that spawned this one, but now you have expanded more on where you are coming from.

To be honest I really don't like all these 'rant' threads and as they are not really asking a question I would love to go back to the old days when they would be closed and the OP told to 'blog it!'

That said, some interesting points do occasionally come up on them and even a constructive debate or two ...let's make this one of them !

You are right though tinxy, I don't consider you as a 1 dayer !

If you have a nationally recognised qualification like and ITEC and have done your A&P before going on to do add on 1 day courses in waxing and tanning then you are really not the kind of therapist most people on here rant about.

I am a nail technician, and have always done training with product companies.

I once went to College to get a National Qualification, and I obtained an NC in Artificial Nail Studies, I could then go on to do the SVQ (Scottish NVQ lol) but I was so shocked and outraged at the standard of training in the College I have never gone back, and opted instead to stick with product companies and do advanced training, with them.

I went on to become an Educator for a couple of the product companies, so I think I did OK without taking the College route.

BUT that was then (13 years ago) and this is now.

Too many people are coming into the Nail Industry having done a 1 day course, or watched a couple of you tube clips and thought they can do that.
They bung on white tips and pull a product over them, be it acrylic or gel, and think that is a set of nails!
They know nothing about contra indications contra actions or common nail diseases.
The odd one may actually be naturally talented and want to learn more so could come on here and ask questions, and go on to further training, but at the end of the day there are more that just take the money and run!

I do think we need more regulation but I doubt it will happen, as there are too many variables, and too many different qualifications, who says an Itec is better or worse than an NVQ, who would be the governing body that decides?

If regulations were brought in, would there be an exemption for therapists/technicians who have already set up their businesses and have years of experience and older qualifications before NVQ's etc came in?
As for Local Councils Licensing salons....well I don't know about down South but up here in Scotland, most Councils would only start that up as a money making excercise for them!

I think there are definiteley more questions than answers on this topic...

 

[Tinxy]

I do appreciate that most don't view an ITEC as a one dayer - but I feel that as it wasn't a full time course then it's closer to the 1 day end of the spectrum than the NVQ end if you see what I mean?
Personally until entering the beauty industry I never put much value to an NVQ (sorry ladies - just being honest)... in my previous line of work they were frankly not respected. You either worked your way up or you had a Uni degree (and lots of friends in high places like Daddy's golfing buddies ) - I started low and grafted...

I don't disagree that the industry needs SOME sort of regulation... my last 4 years were in telecoms - and I could bring up so many examples of where regulation does and doesn't work...

I'm just frustrated at the weekly/daily threads criticising a training method - I don't doubt that actually a lot of them really wanted to vent about the poor quality of certain therapists, but not all of them are "one dayers"... If poor quality is a problem then let's try and get some direction and apply pressure towards something like a unified approach of making sure all therapists having to hold an A&P certificate to a certain standard.

I've had my nails wrecked by someone - shall we settle for saying that it was a stereotypical set up that is oft criticised... - but frankly I didn't know better as had never had them done before and didn't know about looking for certificates or qualifications...


so - in the interest of a genuinely constructive solution here (it's a habit from work - hard to break!) - HOW would people suggest control of the industry might be done and implemented? Would a compulsive register work? Would insurance companies insisting on an A&P certificate to obtain insurance for each therapist be the way? All home and salon based therapists getting a health and safety certificate like baking/cooking businesses?

If we can formulate a plan we could put up a petition and ask for it to be debated (if we get enough signatures....)

or we can petition the insurance companies... etc...

 

[jillybob]

Hi, I have been a watcher for a while and had to regsiter to say well said Tinxy! I have seen the other rants from qualified therapist letting of steam with regards 1 day courses. I personally trained in Beauty Therapy many, many years ago (nearly 20 eeek) but chose not to follow it as a career as I thought then it wasn't for me, but am now doing refresher courses to get back into the industry. If 1 day/ short courses were available back then as they are now I personally would have chosen to have gone down that road. Sitting in a class of students, some of whom were just there to pass the time of day disracting other students, what felt like courses were being dragged out time wise to justify the time spent on them ( 2 days on how to set up a trolley...I mean come on!!). Now I am doing shorter courses (all accredited) getting to the bones of the subject and cutting out the waste and with a group of people who have paid good money to learn and studying the subjects that I personally wish to learn, not those that have been added in to bulk out a course :biggrin:

 

[Kathie]

( 2 days on how to set up a trolley...I mean come on!!).

Crikey, now I'm feeling concerned!

As a result of yesterday's thread http://www.salongeek.com/skin-geek/176480-little-bit-rant.html (which may have been the final straw for Tinxy) I decided to apply to my local college to do an NVQ.

My decision was based on:

a) if one day I decide to open a salon or rent a room locally, I must have an NVQ or equivalent before the council will licence me to operate

b) the regular threads on here insinuating that without an NVQ or similar you are in a different league and no amount of passion, experience, business acumen, professionalism or transferable skills you may possess will compensate

If I have to spend 2 days of my precious life learning how to set up a trolley I am not sure that my time and money is going to be well spent. It may be that going down the NVQ route becomes more of a tick box exercise than an opportunity to learn all the 'secrets of the trade' that will set me apart from the 'short course brigade'.

I expect will go ahead in September regardless and I may create a blog of my experience, hopefully outlining all the benefits to be had by going down the NVQ route.

Kathie x

 

[jillybob]

things may have changed in nearly 20 years, so please don't let that dishearten you. good luck with your course x

 

[Kathie]

things may have changed in nearly 20 years, so please don't let that dishearten you. good luck with your course x

Thanks Jillybob, but my concern is that many of the experienced geeks who advocate that there's no way like the NVQ way! did their training 20 years ago!

 

[jillybob]

I'll give you an example.....2 of my units involved dressing hair?!? If I wanted to do hair, I'd have trained in hairdressing. Don't forget there may be differences in Scottish/ English courses and accreditations.

 

[persianista]

Thanks Jillybob, but my concern is that many of the experienced geeks who advocate that there's no way like the NVQ way! did their training 20 years ago!

That is not true. What we are saying is that you cannot learn an entire trade in one day. You cannot learn to do a facial in one day ( the product companies take a week to train my already qualified therapists just in their products)
You can't learn to do a massage ( other countries insist on 500 hours of training to become a massage therapist)
You cannot learn to be a hairdresser.

If you want to believe that you can learn these things in one day, then that is your opinion. Ranting that it's not fair that the salon owners who provide the jobs don't share your opinion is pointless.
We do the jobs already, we know what is involved, and what our clients expectations are.

If you don't want to listen to successful people who have reached where you want to be, then carry on ranting. It won't change anything.

 

[Kathie]

That is not true. What we are saying is that you cannot learn an entire trade in one day. You cannot learn to do a facial in one day ( the product companies take a week to train my already qualified therapists just in their products)
You can't learn to do a massage ( other countries insist on 500 hours of training to become a massage therapist)
You cannot learn to be a hairdresser.

If you want to believe that you can learn these things in one day, then that is your opinion. Ranting that it's not fair that the salon owners who provide the jobs don't share your opinion is pointless.
We do the jobs already, we know what is involved, and what our clients expectations are.

If you don't want to listen to successful people who have reached where you want to be, then carry on ranting. It won't change anything.

All fair points, although I'm not advocating that it's possible to learn a trade in a day nor any elements that make up the trade.

However, just as the NVQ is taught in modules, I believe, perhaps niavely, doing good quality, short courses is an alternative way of reaching the same goal.

Kathie x

 

[Tinxy]

I don't think we're ranting at Salon owners who are successful - what I personally am ranting about is "stop assuming!" - as a pointer then several of the salons local to me who I asked for info when first starting all said "if you want to do an NVQ that's fine... but I wouldn't bother: do ITEC or a similar level course, NVQs won't get you a job here..." - so obviously there are as many views on what IS good enough as there are providers
I did ITEC massage as I wanted a good base, I'm not saying all one day courses are sufficient - infact I was shocked when someone on here said their 1 day spray tanning course was only a few hours!!! As someone pointed out - hardly enough time to tan a model let alone go through contra indications and health and safety etc.

But instead of blanket writing off all the courses that are not NVQ why not try and find a constructive solution?
Personally I don't have much trust in NVQs from my past, and I'm certainly not going to do them just to please someone else. This board has a WEALTH of information and knowledgable people... why not try to turn it into something useful and work out what standards WOULD be practical and fair and SAFE for therapists AND clients?

 

[jillybob]

All fair points, although I'm not advocating that it's possible to learn a trade in a day nor any elements that make up the trade.

However, just as the NVQ is taught in modules, I believe, perhaps niavely, doing good quality, short courses is an alternative way of reaching the same goal.

My point exactly :green:

 

[Tinxy]

All fair points, although I'm not advocating that it's possible to learn a trade in a day nor any elements that make up the trade.

However, just as the NVQ is taught in modules, I believe, perhaps niavely, doing good quality, short courses is an alternative way of reaching the same goal.

Kathie x

Both my one day courses had people on them taking them as part of their NVQs btw... I just simply weren't doing the rest of them or mine would probably have been an NVQ too! But I'm afraid there were areas that simply don't hold any interest to me So I'm doing those that do!

 

[bird1977]

Hi I went the college route and have done my NVQ lv 2 beauty therapy, NVQ lv 3 beauty therapy techniques and NVQ level 3 nail tech,

I can only say from my own experiences that I feel more confident in the courses that I spent a year doing than the ones I had an "enrichment" day course on such as tanning, threading, intimate waxing so much so i want to book on Kim Lawless waxing course to get my confidence up, and this is with 3 years of beauty courses

So I guess these one day courses just give u the basics it is up to us to practice until we are confident but is it really fair that unsuspecting client's are our guinea pigs? I always tell my clients it is a new skill that I am still trying to perfect and will not charge them full price until I feel I am competent in the treatments I provide.

That's my take on it anyway

 

[Tinxy]

That's called good business practise - and I don't disagree... BUT (you knew that was coming right? ) why should it only apply to those having done "day" courses? If a therapist hasn't been doing a particular treatment since covering it at an NVQ some years ago then wouldn't you say it's only fair they too should disclose that in fact they aren't well practised that that to their clients?
I removed hair from every willing friend I could pin down after my waxing course... if people with these qualifications need to be "policed" then apply it across the industry - NVQ or whatever too! Just because someone has a particular piece of paper doesn't mean they are good or current in that treatment
Then again I have come across GPs who frankly were somewhat out of date and some who were just plain bad... and if we can't protect against that... And I know that their training is a little more in depth than both a day course or an NVQ

So instead of always putting one part of the industry down why aren't we trying to be pro-active and constructive? surely it would be good for everyone who genuinely believe they are good at what they do that there is a standard that is set for all regardless of what piece of paper is on their wall?

 

[wendynailedit]

I'm also a day courser! I did a year diploma in reflexology 12 years ago. Although I did this part time I also worked as an (drum role...) NVQ assessor! So I know how ineffective NVQs CAN be. Assessors are under great pressure to 'get' people through an NVQ, and as a result standards often slip.

I think it's down to the individual and their learning style. I learn by watching and then trying. The small group, one day work shops work well for me. All of my training has been with reputable companies including CND and Nouvatan. I did a one day manicure/pedicure course with CND and then went on to do a day covering Shellac and Minx.

If these one day courses are so badly thought of, why do companies like CND offer them?

Once I did my courses, I then practiced like mad, watched numerous videos, trawled this fantastic site, and educated myself. Education is an ongoing thing, or at least it should be.

I think (as mentioned earlier) that if you qualified 20 years ago, with an NVQ, you wouldn't just sit back and be complacent, you would surely update your training according to new products on the market? To do this, you would presumably do one day courses?

I do agree that A&P as a foundation would be an excellent idea. In the case of my one day course with CND in manicure, we covered all we needed to know about the nail anatomy, but I didn't feel I knew enough about diseases, so I did my own further research (this site was great for guidance). We're all responsible for our own learning at the end of the day, and those of us that put the effort in, will succeed, whichever route we started on.

Just my thoughts! X