I want an NVQ!

[SammiG]

You are right with the tutor thing but if you are a competent nail tech, you shouldn't need tuition, just the asessments if you want to get the certificate.

Sam X

 

[Urban Geek]

Sam,

Did you not complete a portfolio folder?

 

[Urban Geek]

Fiona - I appreciate what you are saying but did you not report the college or the tutor to ANT? I am doing both courses of study since I started my NVQ first and then realised that, apart from Creative having a great reputation for their teaching, I also wanted to use Creative products. Being new to the industry where there is so much competition, I feel it will put me in good stead to compete with the best, eventually. In addition, I also realised that the 'Creative' badge was more recognised/reputed in the high street and felt that I may miss opportunities if I didn't do Creative also since I am currently home-based but may want to pursue a job in a salon in it arises.

In any event, I appreciate your apology and realise your comments weren't meant to cause offence.

 

[SammiG]

I completed a portfolio folder but it wasn' rocket science! It was no easier or harder than my first nail course. I am glad I did it!
Luckily, my tuition was good.
X

 

[naturalnails]

Hi Chris,

I have looked through your Profile (wish I had done it first LOL) and I see you are not doing your NVQ at college. I attempted to do mine at college and certainly in the future I will do it but I will do it with an ANT centre like you are. Unfortunately the colleges are not governed by ANT and the NVQ comes down to the tutors interpretation of the words ie. to have knowledge of something means diferent things to different people LOL.

Thank you for accepting my apology - I never knowingly want to cause offence to anyone but I am starting to get a taste for feet (in my mouth) LOL.

 

[Mani-fique!]

I think there are a few people who will do their NVQ because they want to get into educating and more power to their elbow - if they are highly trained through top end companys then this will help to improve the quality of the NVQ training.

To answer your question Tamm, I personally dont see it as worth your while unless you are wanting a job in a salon and it will look good on your CV, or you want to go into educating. It is a lot of paperwork and I think your current education - as long as you maintain it, will be better quality!

I am curious I must admit as to whether these are the reasons for all you Creative trained peeps doing the NVQ 19.... if not what are they?

Thanks Fiona for making things a bit clearer for me.

I have to say in defence of Fiona that unfortunately colleges have not got a good track record it seems..... I myself did the VTCT in Manicure last year and without going into detail was not very happy with the way things were dealt with.... but thats just my experience..... unfortunately there are a lot of people who have found this the case... in their experience.....

When people's opinions are based on their own experiences then surely they are valid comments.... I also see the point that anyone doing their NVQ etc.... need positive comments...... I agree its not nice but I surely don't think that Fiona is being a Creative Snob.

Yes maybe things should have been said..... but sometimes when you're a lone ranger in these matters its very difficult.....

 

[Urban Geek]

Sam,

The portfolio perhaps isn't rocket science but it certainly isn't a doddle to me anyway. I am glad that you found it so easy - you'll be the best nail tech out there then. Perhaps it is just a case I have been away from studying so long.

Oh dear! All this nails business. Back to my portfolio (God! I must be dim.)

 

[Carole Lindsay]

I am curious I must admit as to whether these are the reasons for all you Creative trained peeps doing the NVQ 19.... if not what are they?

Thanks Fiona for making things a bit clearer for me.

I have to say in defence of Fiona that unfortunately colleges have not got a good track record it seems..... I myself did the VTCT in Manicure last year and without going into detail was not very happy with the way things were dealt with.... but thats just my experience..... unfortunately there are a lot of people who have found this the case... in their experience.....

When people's opinions are based on their own experiences then surely they are valid comments.... I also see the point that anyone doing their NVQ etc.... need positive comments...... I agree its not nice but I surely don't think that Fiona is being a Creative Snob.

Yes maybe things should have been said..... but sometimes when you're a lone ranger in these matters its very difficult.....

I have to say that i didnt have a problem with my course on NVQ man&ped but the teacher had a real attitude problem! I could have just ignored her but that wouldnt have been my way. A formal complaint was put in and she was dealt with - you have to stand up for what you believe is right! As far as colleges go, as my dear hubby would say (he's in the legal profession) "you have to judge every case on its merit" and i think that is true too - every tutor and college is different and i dont think that it necessarily means the NVQ isnt worth having just because of one bad experience. Just my thoughts so please dont anybody shoot me

 

[Mani-fique!]

I have to say that i didnt have a problem with my course on NVQ man&ped but the teacher had a real attitude problem! I could have just ignored her but that wouldnt have been my way. A formal complaint was put in and she was dealt with - you have to stand up for what you believe is right! As far as colleges go, as my dear hubby would say (he's in the legal profession) "you have to judge every case on its merit" and i think that is true too - every tutor and college is different and i dont think that it necessarily means the NVQ isnt worth having just because of one bad experience. Just my thoughts so please dont anybody shoot me

I totally agree.... thats why individually we hear both sides of the argument and then base our decisions on what we feel is the right thing to do...... after all there will always be good and bad experiences.... its just working out which experiences are a one off and which show a pattern of poor education.

And you're right you have to stand up for things..... however.... sometimes its just not worth it.... that is the thing to decide on whether you take action or not. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be bothered but rather sometimes some arguments won't get you anywhere so pretty pointless to pursue..... unless its something serious

 

[Jane]

For a long time some powers that be have said there will be legislation in the UK that says in order to get a licence we need to have the NVQ - in reality I think the only places who have done this are a couple of boroughs in London.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for some form of legislation but until there is standardisation of procedures I dont ever see it happening - example - some companys teach etch the natural nail with a 100 grit file where some say remove shine with a 240 - quite a difference. Some companys teach to apply product over wet primer where others teach that the natural nail needs to be very dry.

At the moment there is a new NVQ which will come into effect this Summer (I think) which is a stand alone qualification rather than a single unit of a beauty qual - this seems to be a better option for those about to start doing the NVQ if that is the route they want to go.

The only advantage I would have gained from doing the NVQ in the past is that my insurance would have been cheaper which does gall me a little - I have been a tech for 4 years and have regularly done training up to CND Master level but someone with a college NVQ who may not even know how to do a rebalance would get cheaper insurance than I would - sorry to digress.

Even with the NVQ the level of teaching and assessment seems to vary - if I did it then I would look to one of the ANT satallite centres rather than college (dependent on the college tutor - some are exceptional but unfortuantely the exception rather than the rule).

I would much rather see a "Board" made up of industry experts and we had to do an assessment regularly to remain a "member".


Hope this clears up a bit.

I have to agree with what Fiona has said. I haven't done it. I have looked into it on 3 different occasions and a 3 different locations. Everyone was extremely unhelpful. I was told by one place that I'd have to do 6 workshops. I wasn't even asked what experience I'd had. That just gave me the impression it was all about £££,s. These people are assessing not teaching therefore can have quite a few people in together.
I'm awaiting the new NVQ, I may do it then, providing I can find the right assessor.

 

[SammiG]

Sam,

The portfolio perhaps isn't rocket science but it certainly isn't a doddle to me anyway. I am glad that you found it so easy - you'll be the best nail tech out there then. Perhaps it is just a case I have been away from studying so long.

Oh dear! All this nails business. Back to my portfolio (God! I must be dim.)

I'm sure you are not dim! (Sorry - didn't mean to sound like a know it all or offend you)
Can NVQ portfolios be different depending on where you go too? I mean I reeaallyy didn't have to do hardly anything for my portfolio apart from case studies with photos. But maybe that's because I did a couple of other courses before.
Or maybe it is varying standards?

SamXX

 

[Urban Geek]

Hi Sam - I wouldn't have thought it would be different but the following is an overview of Unit 19, NVQ Level 3:<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">

 

[Urban Geek]

2nd time lucky!

Hi Sam,

I wouldn't have thought your course would be different from mine but the following is briefly what I have to do:

Practical Assessments - Demonstrating a knowledge of all 3 systems, showing competence in at least one system (I am doing l&p and fibreglass/silk).

Theory Section (which is covered in a portfolio of evidence that is completed in the student's own time and also written and oral tests at the practical assessments) - Demonstrating a throough knowledge of the natural nail, its structure and growth, contra-indications, disorders and diseases, as well as the main rules of COSHH, health and safety, first aid, sterilisation, product and chemical knowledge, contra-actions, problem nails and conditions and suitable aftercare for each treatment.

As mentioned previously, I am also working towards my Creative Masters which I don't feel is any more or any less thorough than the Unit 19 NVQ Level 3. It is also commonly known that the Creative Masters badge is not a dodle to achieve. In any event, I would rather my course work was thorough (not saying yours wasn't!), otherwise it wouldn't be worthwhile.

I am sure this will go on and on until the industry is more black & white as to what is a respected/accepted/necessary standard.

 

[SammiG]

Hi,

I think I have just realised why I thought the homework was so easy and not much of it ... I already completed 2 different courses beforehand that covered a lot of the legislation / safety etc so was able to transfer preveous credit. I also got asked questions too.
Whoops! Sorry, didn't mean to cause offence or anything when I said it was easy! Would have been a lot more work if I hadn't have done the two courses beforehand!

Sam X

 

[Urban Geek]

No worries Sam. I'll get there in the end xx

 

[mum]

Hello all you 'Confused of Geekland'

I do think it is a shame that so many dedicated professionals are confused anout NVQ's etc. Thay have been around for ages and it's the fault of the industry in general not to make the situation clearer.

I could write a 6 part heavy book on the subject but will try to expel a few confusions.

B19 is one unit in a Beauty Tharepy NVQ Level 3. It is not an NVQ. Nails have not had an NVQ before

In August the B19 will cease to be (those still doing it will still continue and those who have it already will still be qualified in that Unit)
From then there will be the very first NVQ in Nail Services Levels 2 and 3.

This can be compared to a full hairdressers advanced qualification or a full beauty therapists advanced qualification. Roughly speaking, the skill units in Level 2 are manicure, pedicure, artificial nails application and maintenance (fibre system only but called wraps!!) and basic nail art.
Level 3 skill units is artificial nails all systems, maintaining, repairing, cosmetically enhancing, sculpting, removing, advanced nail art (airbrushing, embedding, 3D, coloured acrylics etc) and an option of media stuff. Complete NVQ's can be taken or single or multiple units from them.

The only way for the industry to progress to a truly professional career is with these qualifications (compare with hair and beauty!!!!!!!) We have been beauty therapists poor relations; now we're not. A qualified therapist can take 2 years at full time college! Are advanced technicians any less than that?

I personally believe government based licensing throughout the UK is very unlikely. The government want industry sectors to 'police' themselves. The most likely are 'environmental' based licenses from local authorities particularly as we use very hazardous products and can cause damage to people. This is what exists in London.

To my knowledge Creative in the UK have always advocated formal qualifications. Their level of training has always been far above the national requirements. The requirements have now jumped right up there now.

As with any training, everything depends on the trainer and there are good and bad. The main problem with B19 etc is interpretation and mostly beauty therapists and nail technicians interpretation! If you want the best in something go to a specialist in that subject not a 'jack of all trades'.

Whew!

I've been involved in the development of formal qualifications and all that surrounds them for years and still am (am inthe process of writing course outlines for the new Technical Certificate. Yes another qualification!!!! See Professional Nails shortly for an explanation of that one) 2nd edition of my book out next month to coincide with the new qualifications.

Ok shout at me now!

Marian (Newman)

 

[Carole Lindsay]

Hello all you 'Confused of Geekland'

I do think it is a shame that so many dedicated professionals are confused anout NVQ's etc. Thay have been around for ages and it's the fault of the industry in general not to make the situation clearer.

I could write a 6 part heavy book on the subject but will try to expel a few confusions.

B19 is one unit in a Beauty Tharepy NVQ Level 3. It is not an NVQ. Nails have not had an NVQ before

In August the B19 will cease to be (those still doing it will still continue and those who have it already will still be qualified in that Unit)
From then there will be the very first NVQ in Nail Services Levels 2 and 3.

This can be compared to a full hairdressers advanced qualification or a full beauty therapists advanced qualification. Roughly speaking, the skill units in Level 2 are manicure, pedicure, artificial nails application and maintenance (fibre system only but called wraps!!) and basic nail art.
Level 3 skill units is artificial nails all systems, maintaining, repairing, cosmetically enhancing, sculpting, removing, advanced nail art (airbrushing, embedding, 3D, coloured acrylics etc) and an option of media stuff. Complete NVQ's can be taken or single or multiple units from them.

The only way for the industry to progress to a truly professional career is with these qualifications (compare with hair and beauty!!!!!!!) We have been beauty therapists poor relations; now we're not. A qualified therapist can take 2 years at full time college! Are advanced technicians any less than that?

I personally believe government based licensing throughout the UK is very unlikely. The government want industry sectors to 'police' themselves. The most likely are 'environmental' based licenses from local authorities particularly as we use very hazardous products and can cause damage to people. This is what exists in London.

To my knowledge Creative in the UK have always advocated formal qualifications. Their level of training has always been far above the national requirements. The requirements have now jumped right up there now.

As with any training, everything depends on the trainer and there are good and bad. The main problem with B19 etc is interpretation and mostly beauty therapists and nail technicians interpretation! If you want the best in something go to a specialist in that subject not a 'jack of all trades'.

Whew!

I've been involved in the development of formal qualifications and all that surrounds them for years and still am (am inthe process of writing course outlines for the new Technical Certificate. Yes another qualification!!!! See Professional Nails shortly for an explanation of that one) 2nd edition of my book out next month to coincide with the new qualifications.

Ok shout at me now!

Marian (Newman)

Shout at you?? I wanna kiss you! That's the first explanation i've actually understood . I have the manicure & pedicure (part of unit 19) already and did my enhancements and nail art with Star Nails. If i wanted to formalise my qualification into the NVQ how much would need to be repeated? Would the man & ped part be counted towards it? I've already done the M74 and M2 which cover the health and safety etc.

 

[mum]

Hi Carole

Thanks for that. I was getting ready to duck!!

The new units separate manicure and pedicure (the old ones had them together in 1 unit). With any luck, you would not need to do much more. Gaining the qualifcation is centered around being able to do the job not when and how you were taught. SAC assessment centres (like Chocolat's) will just assess if required.

The best advice I can give you is to look on www.habia.org.uk, go to downloads the click on the bit that says you see the Standards for hair and beauty. (Or find new beauty standards) Open the relevant units and take a look. If you're not used to reading standards, just look at the 'Knowledge' section and see if you think you know it. If that looks OK, look at the Performance Criteria and see if you think you can do it. If that looks OK, all the rest will be explained by an assessor.

Go get those 'friggin' (Geek language) bits of paper with a big NVQ on them!

xx

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

Hi Carole

Thanks for that. I was getting ready to duck!!

The new units separate manicure and pedicure (the old ones had them together in 1 unit). With any luck, you would not need to do much more. Gaining the qualifcation is centered around being able to do the job not when and how you were taught. SAC assessment centres (like Chocolat's) will just assess if required.

The best advice I can give you is to look on www.habia.org.uk, go to downloads the click on the bit that says you see the Standards for hair and beauty. (Or find new beauty standards) Open the relevant units and take a look. If you're not used to reading standards, just look at the 'Knowledge' section and see if you think you know it. If that looks OK, look at the Performance Criteria and see if you think you can do it. If that looks OK, all the rest will be explained by an assessor.

Go get those 'friggin' (Geek language) bits of paper with a big NVQ on them!

xx

Thanks Marian
This link was very usefull and I have copied it and saved it for future reference.....
and there is no need to duck unless you wanna miss all those huggs lol.....
here's is one {{{{{huggs}}}}}......
Now where is chocolate lol.............. must have a chat with her xxxxx

Thanks again you are a star............
and what is the title of the new book then ??? Signed copy please lol !!!!!

 

[chocolate]

oh "mum" i am so glad you replied first, that would have taken me all night to write!

I do agree with a lot of what has been said, courses, depending on the tutor, irrelivent of the company or place, can make a massive difference. Get a tutor on a bad day, and youve had it. I believe that we need to start somewhere, everybody moans about the cowboys, so the NVQ is a start to raise the standards. Some training courses are bad, some are good, but who regulates them? no one!!!!!!!!!!! I have worked so hard to keep my training courses to a high standard, making sure that i keep my classes small, write a full training manual, give support etc. When i did my training qualifications, (NVQ level 4) i realised there was more to teaching than just a knowledge of nails.

Its Westminster and Camden london boroughs that have enforced the NVQ. I hope all councils will one day, but thats gonna take years, if ever. Until then, we can only hope that health inspectors will sort out the major probs. Call your local council to see if they know of the NVQ and if they have any plans to enforce it, that will tell you if you need it or not. If you dont, then you may want to get it anyway, which is great.

From the SAC view, we will only teach you if you need it, i have assessed many people that i have not trained, that can fly through their assessments with no probs. We have a massive meeting on the 12th of Sept, where city and guilds will be there. We will get the new portfolios, new costs, new requirements etc, so until then, its a waiting game, and i still have 108 candidates to finish off my list!!!!!!!!! I am so excited about the new nail art unit, its what i love. Also that manicure and pedicure is now seperate, for those of you that dont like feet!

From a personal view, i love it more than anything when i have a so called "trained" tech, been in the industry for years, come to me to be assessed, who does not even know why you must use a metal bin! I feel like saying ha ha!!!!!!, you dont know it all! My fav candidates are those who are willing to learn, enjoy their work and put the effort in, i feel so proud when they finally get their certificate.

So ask yourself, do i need or want my NVQ?? If yes, great, if no, my reply would be, why dont you????????????????????????????????????????????