Muis Creative Conversion Gripe

[The Geek]

Aint gonna happen Mui.

I split the thread and renamed it accordingly. I based the thread title on the fact that you had a gripe with a conversion course. Thread titles reflect their content. Your post was off topic in the original thread hence the split and rename. Hand on heart I didnt think you (or anyone) would have found the title unacceptable.

You will find plenty of instances where the members did not agree with The Nail Geek Nerds point of view. Because you can find them proves to you that I dont remove peoples differing views.

I could care less what you think of CND, EZ flows, or Tammy Taylors courses you are always invited to discuss your point of view in a constructive manner.

Thank you in advance for threatening me no more

 

[liza smith]

oh dear...
i really didn't think that we'd have any of this negative posting for a while.
my only hope, mui, is that your obvious passion for our industry is being warped by some breakdown in the language barrier.
don't get me wrong, i applaude you for being able to converse in english, i wouldn't know where to start speaking another language.
however, when i read some of the posts from people whose 1st language isn't english, sometimes some of the content is slightly off.
the trouble is, most of us use humour & inuendo in our posts, & sometimes that doesn't translate quite right.
i'm hopeing that some of this is the reason that this post has gone the way it has.
just to have one last stab at putting the point accross..

conversion is education on product knowledge, not on how to do nails.

it saves the nail tech money to buy the professional kit for the conversion.

the education is free.

i personally enjoyed your posts of about a year ago, you made me laugh so much with your humour.
lets hear more of that humour
liza xx

 

[geeg]

I think if you are going to speak as the big boss of this board speak straight because you embarrass yourself .

I used your equation Mui, which was way off in the first place ... so if I look rediculous, it is only a reflection of your own weird and wonderful figures that you bandy about when it suits you to make some kind of a point. I am not embarassed in the slightest ... and I do not think it is I who look rediculous here.

I didn't know I was the big boss of the board, I thought it was the Geek! Or is he now a nerd ... ??

My role is to teach on this site and to answer the questions you posted (in this instance) regarding Creative's education policy in the UK. I answered the questions but you refuse to listen to the answers. You may not like the answers, but I really do not see the relevance to you in Thailand to the UK policy or why it should distress you so much?? Perhaps you would enlighten us? It is now the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you this question and you have not given an answer.

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

Good morning Mui,

Well London is a tourist centre too, but thank goodness the nail salons there do not rely on tourist trade for their business. It is hard when that is the case and as I said, I admire that you do so may things and take advantage of every opportuity to better both your and your collegues lifestyles.

However, making 50,000.00 a year would not even pay your rent or rates in London and you would be starving. I think 40 x 8 x 6 x 52 sounds allot more realistic to me. In fact if I worked in London, I would be charging even more, and I woud get it too.

I hope you have a lovely day and a good season when it starts.

Oh how true the rent and business rates for us here in central London are huge........
Our Rent for our shop is £30 000 per year and the rates are £14 000 a year..........
So work it out, it doesn't leave much for electricity, phone, stock and income tax, insurance and Accountant fees....................
Never mind any money for food, rent for our homes and the like........
So on this expenditure figure , prices are worked out............
They are worked out so that we can live and I charge the prices I charge not because I am greedy but because I need to eat and have clothes and pay my bills..............
I don't drive an expensive car, I dont have one...........
I don't buy designer clothes, I can't afford them
My last holiday was 4 years ago............

What I do have is a good business with regular Clients, I do not have a low season ....I do not rely on tourism to make my money.............
I re-invest my profits back in to my business and education.

I do not rely on tourist trade..............
I do the odd nail repair for tourists......
My clients are in the financial and legal profession and have an avarage income of £50 000 to the highest being £120 000............
Tourist that visit London use the West End Nail Salons..............and they charge even more then I do as their rent is even higher.............

Where as go to a little town or borough outside London and you will find that, the Technicians there can charge a lot less money as their rent and business rates are much lower.........But also their wages and income is much lower....

Mui you can't compare Thailand prices with UK prices.... Or even USA prices with UK prices.......our economie, our cost of living and expenditure is totaly different to your country.............

Our economie is governend by interest rates, Stock markets, Inport and Export figures and financial exchange rates, the futures market and so on.......and the chancellor of the exchequer........and the cost of living.........

In order to understand the way our country fully works, that includes pricing Nail services , you would have to live here full time............

But why worry what happens here in the UK ???? Be happy doing fab Nails in your Salon and let us UK Techs woryy what happens to us here in the UK.......
Lets hope we all have a very successful year and then I might even be able to afford a holiday to your beautiful land....................

Lets have some happy posts..........I love reading happy posts xxxxxx

 

[Jo Jo]

This one really has gone all tits up hasn't it! it's not often there is such a debate and I had to think carefully before putting my two penneth in but... without wanting in any way to sound patronising to any parties... Mui I think you have misunderstood the intent of Geeg's original message... First of all let me say Mui I think your work is beautiful and I truly congratulate you if like was said before you have only been doing nails for a year, the pictures in your gallery certainly look of a very high quality and after only a year myself mine look nothing like that quality! Also to participate in discussions in another language I am always amazed by! I sort of understand your original message... that why when you have been trained with one company should you need to train with another just to use their product, well let me tell you this Mui, I did 4 courses before the CND foundation and whilst there were great things I took from the Essential Nails course there were also things after leaving the CND foundation course I had not previously known (if that makes sense), and my work definitely improved after taking the CND course, I paid for the full foundation course as I had not been 'qualified' for a year, I didn't even know that here in the UK the conversion is free! how wonderful, how many companies do that?? Also, I think you have to ask yourself, how many of the big companies have a forum like this where you get to speak directly to the people who own and run the business on a regular basis?? Not many people put that sort of time and effort into customer relations, and I think that the fact The Geek site isn't a purely 'CND qualified' only site tells us alot too, I know sometimes it can be overwhelming because naturally there are alot of CND lovers on here and it can sometimes feel like you are being 'jumped on' for speaking your mind, but Mui don't let it get out of control, you are a regular on this site and I know I for one love reading your threads and you are always supportive. Geeg is (thankfully!) a very direct speaker, what she says is how it really is and in this industry it's a rarity to get someone speak without the 'sales pitch' hidden in there somewhere, I know sometimes the truth can get us all a little grouchy, I don't think for one minute she or Sam or anyone else means anything in a hostile manner here towards you, I read the replies from Geeg as simply factual straight talking and I believe you could have taken it the wrong way and reacted like we all do when we feel cornered. So.... take a deep breath....relax!! and I sincerely hope to see more topics from you in the near future. J xxx

 

[Lily]

Lets hope we all have a very successful year and then I might even be able to afford a holiday to your beautiful land....................

Lets have some happy posts..........I love reading happy posts xxxxxx

Well said Ruthie,
There is enough animosity in this world today without starting on fellow proffesionals.....we are all here do give an excellent service and at the end of the day as long as we are doing this, does it matter how we got here and who we trained with......as Ruth said HAPPY POSTS MAKE HAPPY READINGS
Amanda

 

[Carole Lindsay]

Well said Ruthie,
There is enough animosity in this world today without starting on fellow proffesionals.....we are all here do give an excellent service and at the end of the day as long as we are doing this, does it matter how we got here and who we trained with......as Ruth said HAPPY POSTS MAKE HAPPY READINGS
Amanda

Here here Lily!! Enough said!

 

[talented talons]

Here Here,

lets agree to disagree and move on

lets keep this site a happy site.

 

[mui]

sawasdee ka

I have a question to ask please .

In America if a lady trains with ezflow and she wants to buy creative product does she have to do conversion course or is this only in England .

If it is only in England who makes this rule .

If a lady does not go to a company to train but goes to a salon and does not get certificate is this lady not qualified because in Asia many girls go to salons to learn where they have 1-2 -1 with a nail tech master artist not a short course in a school with many other girl but you maybe will not get certificate .

I only ask this because i do not understand if a girl go to a salon and is trained by master tech for 2 weeks 1-1 is she not qualified because she did not train with a company .

I think everybody right not want to have product with somebody not train but does a company certificate mean everything and is l&p not about liquid and powder control and do creative think that we are all so stupid that we can not with a little bit of practice use there product after we have used other products for a year .

i realy do not understand you only want the product in creative trained hands are all the other companys training no good .

I have winning nails video and 2 tammy taylor videos come to Thailand soon will this not be like a teaching about how to use the product .

Sorry for many question but i want to know this .

Thank you mui from Thailand

Please read the origional post AGAIN in a soft voice note the word please it only ask about the difference in the uk to usa something i did not know to nail techs being able to buy creatives products in different countrys and i ask about the importance that you feel about a certificate .

 

[mui]

Hi Mui,

We have had this conversation before about the so called 'Creative rules' in the Uk and I will tell you who made up the rule 'no class, no product ... I did!

I will explain again to you that until about 5 or 6 years ago now, there were only 3 companies in the UK who even offered any training and the colleges found it practically impossible to find any trainers to teach nails. So they hired any old nail technician with a salon in their area to teach (without any teaching ability or qualifications) just so they could offer the courses and make some money! (as always there were a few exceptions ... thank goodness)

Other companies just starting up in the UK were selling to anyone regardless of whether of not they had had any training at all and in allot of cases they had had none. (most still do so)

The only way that a standard could be created at that time was to enforce it ourselves (at Creative) so that we knew who was buying our product and that they knew what to do with it and that they were insured correctly (another 'rule' that I enforced. No insurance, no product).

Dr. Stuart Nordstrom - the Founder of Creative Nail Design had the philosophy that the company still adheres to today, that if you innovate new technology, then you must educate along with it so that the technicians using it have the advantage of full product knowledge and therefore the ability to use the product with complete understanding and safety. I make no apology for this stance as it is to everyones benefit when building a prospeous, sucessful business.

Until the time when we can be sure that a standard is in place for all technicians, then Creative will continue to take this road. If technicians want to be arrogant and say ... "well I don't need a class, I can use any product" ... then that is their option and their loss in my opinion. I think we can always learn more and if the comments we get on Creative Classes are anything to go by, then this has proved to be true time and time again through the positive comments regarding what they have learned on Creative Classes.

Indeed this web site has brought Creative education to many who have appreciated it very much and it is all for free. Everyone who loves this site and has learned so much here, can thank Creative ... for the teachers on this site who give so much of their time are Creative Ambassadors.

You have had a 'bee in your bonnet' about what goes on in the UK Creative-wise for more than a year now and have brought this subject up before and I have answered before similarly to the post above. I hope this post has given you more understanding as to why we do what we do and will continue to do what we do as part of our mission to 'train the best equipped nail technicians using the highest quality products with knowledge and complete understanding'.

I can only guess as to what is your motive or concern regarding the stance Creative Nail Design has taken regarding education in the UK? The conversion class does not cost the technician anything but some time, and they gain immeasurably from the class. Sounds like a win win to me. I can see nothing negative and really can't see why it bothers you so much.

Here we have a post with geeg having her FIRST BAD way of speaking to me in this thread i have done nothing wrong .

 

[mui]

Geeg

I posted 2 nice post i only ask if it is the same for all countrys .

Why do every body only want creative products in the hand of creative trained tech other companys can teach as well only ladys on this board think that creative products should not be sold to qualified techs not trained with creative its not same in america and creative is a american company if i am not wrong .

We sell our creative products liquid and powders in Thailand to anyone that has been trained so ruth is right countrys are different we are same america .

Mui from Thailand

Here i say i have posted two nice post what is peoples problem and ask about why people do not want creative products in qualified hands very very soft simple question .

 

[mui]

Other companies may be able to teach how to do nails ... what they cannot teach is how Creative products work and the chemistry behind them. I was the uk DISTRIBUTOR for Creative and I made the rules for my country based on my judgement of the market and lthe level of training at the time. As of yet my oinion hasn't changed ... maybe one day others will decide differently as standards improve.

Any and I mean any, well trained technician could pick up Creative Retention+ or Radical systems and probably do wonderful nails with the product because it is so easy to work with ... agreed ... but they would not have the slightest understanding OF the product.

If we had no rules, Any badly trained technician could aslo pick up Creative systems and do horrible looking nails and cause all sorts of problems because they would not have the slightest undertanding of the product or the beauty that we want our technicnas to create with the product. WE are not prepared to let this happen.

We make it EASY for the technicians to switch and as Ruth and I said, it is free.

So I guess the answer to your question is YES there are, it would appear, different rules in different countries because countries differ and standards differ. But I think your post said allot more thanthe simple question you re-presented above.

We have (rightly in my opinion) put high standards in place to go along with a high end product, that we don't want to see trashed by untrained or badly trained or even well trained technicians because they don't know how to use it..

By the way ... as I have said before, we don't teach how to do nails on our conversion class ... we teach product knowledge BUT the technicians generally leave the class doing better nails than when they came in because they have learned so much by watching our brilllient Ambassadors (a good majority of whom are competition winners) demonstrate their skills with the product.

Is there lisencing in Thailand??? If not you are not the same as in America and should not be selling product to technicians without education in that product line. Thats called being greedy ... sell to anyone just to make a buck and never mind if they can use the product correctly? Maybe your way ... not our way.

Answer from geeg to my soft simple question insults me in front of 2300 redgistered members and anyone else that comes to look this web site to think i have told other thai techs to come look this web address makes me feel very shy .

Thank you geeg

 

[mui]

You love to deliberately miss the point of every one of my posts, Mui so you can try to score a few of your own ...

After doing nails for only one year, you seem to be the world wide expert on journalism, importing foreign goods, education, prices, nail art, infact everything to do with the subject. Yet you tell me that your salon nail business is not doing well, so now you are into product distribution over your web site as well as nail training in order to survive. From your last post I presume you are a non-profit making organization and as someone posted earlier, you just do it all for love?

Well I am not going to critisize you Mui, because actually I do admire your tenacity and your ambition in a country where there is a huge amount of competition .... BUT I'm sure we would all appreciate it if you were not always so critical of the way we run our busineses here in the UK. Your personal opinion may be that I am wrong as you put it ... others do not agree with you ... that is what makes the world go round. I am obviously not going to change your mind and you certainly are not going to change mine with the arguments you have put forward.

You have made it quite obvious regarding what you think of us here in the UK yet I would bet any money you yourself have learned more form this web site than you ever did from the nail education you got from a salon owner in Bankok. You have used this site extensively in the past and were very eager to learn all you could ... You still use it now every time you need an epert answer to a question others can't answer.

The people who use Creative here in the UK and in the other countries around the world, who take the exact same line we do regarding education,
are proud to be associated with the company and to use the wonderful products Creative manufacture and are very loyal to the brand. I don't think we can be doing things so badly.

I have answered the question you asked in your post. That should be enough for you. Lets not stir up any more bad feelings.

This post is a disgrace it attacks me as a person attacks my buisness and of all the things that i am now very angry with it brings up things that were said on personal email that YOU have posted in this web site .

I will ask again for this thread to be taken down please .

 

[mui]

Geeg sawasdee ka

If you take nearly every one out of london for 6 months i am very sure that the salons in london for the 6 months would not do much buissness as well we are a tourist part of Thailand next high season will be very good .

Yes we studied all your ideas about nails products distribution nail art every thing we learn from your country and other country from around the world we have always said thank you .

No we are not expert we are learning every day and will for many many year to come .

I am happy you posted about my licenece because i went to look when date finish i must go to the govermant office soon to make new yes all girls work in beauty salon have to have a licence we have to make the goverment licenece that have 3 signiture and 2 goverment stamps and a photo every year with update of any new education we have and we can have inspection anytime i am also trained in reflexology by a thai ministry of education school .

Yes geeg i am doing fine thank you i speak and read and write two lanquages i am learning to speak japanese soon when i have money for school i have my own salon i have a baby i have small money now because i put every thing back into my salon .

Yes geeg some times we do no good in the salon i am now in low season doing nails for usa 12 dollars for thai people but i am happy i am working and i am practiseing and being paid money and yes i have learn a lot from this website and beautytech and just looking at all the education on the internet .

If i was in England i would not be listening to anybody about price and trying to have 40 pound for a set of nail i would be like the other asian people doing 8 set a day 8 x 20 x 6 x 52 50000 for one year not sitting doing nothing because worry about working cheap .

Thank you for all your kind free advise i am sure it will bring happiness to me my family my friends that i give your advise to free and bring happiness to my future .

We will all be very happy when we all sit watch the winning nails video soon every nail tech that know me will want to look for sure .

Mui

This post is so i can try to keep some face you have made me very shy tells you that my salon is in a tourist area so i will have some quiet months you brought my PRIVATE BUISSNESS to the site not ME tells you about the licenece we are more liceneced then you and have inspections if the truth is known BECAUSE the message that you keep posting is that there are all the thai girls doing nails with no education and licenece wrong again geeg tells you we do 12 dollar nails at the moment to pay the rent electric and eat tells you about the numbers i would also do in england and tells you we are happy it is you that is biteing me not the other way around .

I will ask again to take this thread down .

 

[mui]

Good morning Mui,

Well London is a tourist centre too, but thank goodness the nail salons there do not rely on tourist trade for their business. It is hard when that is the case and as I said, I admire that you do so may things and take advantage of every opportuity to better both your and your collegues lifestyles.

However, making 50,000.00 a year would not even pay your rent or rates in London and you would be starving. I think 40 x 8 x 6 x 52 sounds allot more realistic to me. In fact if I worked in London, I would be charging even more, and I woud get it too.

I hope you have a lovely day and a good season when it starts.

Yes geeg i can live in Bangkok where there is maybe a better buissness for me with 8 million Thai people working and living there but i live on a island that is a tourist place that has a rainy season i live here because i think i can make a good buissnes in future and because it is good for my baby .

Maybe you can get 8 booking a day at 40.00 or more but i am sure that me and many girl on this board can NOT but we could make a book with 20.00 a day because the salons that do that price in England are busy i read it all the time DISCOUNT salons but have the names from some ladys as nss the salons are so bad that the customers keep going back DISCOUNT SALONS .

 

[mui]

hmmm. Seems some were busy typing late last night and early this morning.

I am splitting this thread as it has nothing to do with selling CND products on ebay (which sadly you can get really any professional hair, skin, or nail products on).

As far as the Conversion requirements go... I think that has been beaten to death (but I will kick this dead horse one more time for prosperity):

As the USA is the only country with licensing requirements (and hence a plausible working standard) MOST countries that sell CND have conversion requirements to prevent people working unsafe with the system. Heck, a lot of other pro brands do as well.
The conversion course is a short term rip off for the distributors as they lose serious money holding them, but a great deal for the nail tech as they are simply buying the product that they would have to buy in order to use the system in the first place (at a serious discount) and getting free education on top of it.

Also: A conversion is not always required. Since an NVQ lvl 3 is supposed to be a standard, we accepted this as a standard good enough to be qulaified to purchase the system without a conversion course. Saying that... the people coming in to our classrooms with this qualification more often than not leave a lot to be desired.

Regardless, if they wanted to use CND, then they would have to buy the product right? Buy it at a cheaper rate in the kit and hey... get some education with it as well. Sounds pretty dang simple to me.

Regardless, I am not sure why you are so pissed off as you are refering to something that takes place in the UK, quite a bit of distance from Thiland.

Anyway... I think what needs to be said has already been said by everyone here.

Toodles

The geek explaineing he has split the thread because went off topic and it did not and has give this thread a bad name i have asked for the thread to be taken down as it was not a thread that i posted to i have ask for it to be taken down as it brings out personal things that were posted by geeg that were said in private and attacks me .

The geek says he will not i will go to the law office today and ask them to make complaint to england about what is going on .

 

[mui]

Aint gonna happen Mui.

I split the thread and renamed it accordingly. I based the thread title on the fact that you had a gripe with a conversion course. Thread titles reflect their content. Your post was off topic in the original thread hence the split and rename. Hand on heart I didnt think you (or anyone) would have found the title unacceptable.

You will find plenty of instances where the members did not agree with The Nail Geek Nerds point of view. Because you can find them proves to you that I dont remove peoples differing views.

I could care less what you think of CND, EZ flows, or Tammy Taylors courses you are always invited to discuss your point of view in a constructive manner.

Thank you in advance for threatening me no more

The geek did not like it when nag spoke bad about him or his wifes/geegs buissness but he feels that he can just do what he wants to others i asked him to take the thread down you have not i told you i would make problem not threaten i do what i speak all the time i will go to the law office today .

I will also in a welcome constructive manner post as much as i like in future .

The nail geek nerd is your created name not mine i see you call yourself the nail nerd in beauty tech strange i looked in the dicitonary why u want to call your self that .

 

[mui]

oh dear...
i really didn't think that we'd have any of this negative posting for a while.
my only hope, mui, is that your obvious passion for our industry is being warped by some breakdown in the language barrier.
don't get me wrong, i applaude you for being able to converse in english, i wouldn't know where to start speaking another language.
however, when i read some of the posts from people whose 1st language isn't english, sometimes some of the content is slightly off.
the trouble is, most of us use humour & inuendo in our posts, & sometimes that doesn't translate quite right.
i'm hopeing that some of this is the reason that this post has gone the way it has.
just to have one last stab at putting the point accross..

conversion is education on product knowledge, not on how to do nails.

it saves the nail tech money to buy the professional kit for the conversion.

the education is free.

i personally enjoyed your posts of about a year ago, you made me laugh so much with your humour.
lets hear more of that humour

Thank you lisa if some people read the post in a soft voice they will not have to attack me and i do not know why they try to defend every thing with biteing i only ask a simple soft question .

 

[mui]

I used your equation Mui, which was way off in the first place ... so if I look rediculous, it is only a reflection of your own weird and wonderful figures that you bandy about when it suits you to make some kind of a point. I am not embarassed in the slightest ... and I do not think it is I who look rediculous here.

I didn't know I was the big boss of the board, I thought it was the Geek! Or is he now a nerd ... ??

My role is to teach on this site and to answer the questions you posted (in this instance) regarding Creative's education policy in the UK. I answered the questions but you refuse to listen to the answers. You may not like the answers, but I really do not see the relevance to you in Thailand to the UK policy or why it should distress you so much?? Perhaps you would enlighten us? It is now the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you this question and you have not given an answer.

My ridicules figures as you speak are from the postings of other ladys saying the discount salons are busy in england also i ask a question how many average are ladys in america doing in one day it is 8 .

The nail nerd is a name geek has give to himself in postings on beautytech geeg you learn some thing new every day huh ?

I am not distressed about any thing before on this board and i do not have any motive to speak no good but am now upset that you and you gang bite me again for doing nothing wrong .

Yes geeg you are the big boss because the geek always tells us that he has NOTHING to do with the creative designer nails buissness and it is creative and designer nails products foundation course and conversion that is sold on this board .

 

[mui]

This one really has gone all tits up hasn't it! it's not often there is such a debate and I had to think carefully before putting my two penneth in but... without wanting in any way to sound patronising to any parties... Mui I think you have misunderstood the intent of Geeg's original message... First of all let me say Mui I think your work is beautiful and I truly congratulate you if like was said before you have only been doing nails for a year, the pictures in your gallery certainly look of a very high quality and after only a year myself mine look nothing like that quality! Also to participate in discussions in another language I am always amazed by! I sort of understand your original message... that why when you have been trained with one company should you need to train with another just to use their product, well let me tell you this Mui, I did 4 courses before the CND foundation and whilst there were great things I took from the Essential Nails course there were also things after leaving the CND foundation course I had not previously known (if that makes sense), and my work definitely improved after taking the CND course, I paid for the full foundation course as I had not been 'qualified' for a year, I didn't even know that here in the UK the conversion is free! how wonderful, how many companies do that?? Also, I think you have to ask yourself, how many of the big companies have a forum like this where you get to speak directly to the people who own and run the business on a regular basis?? Not many people put that sort of time and effort into customer relations, and I think that the fact The Geek site isn't a purely 'CND qualified' only site tells us alot too, I know sometimes it can be overwhelming because naturally there are alot of CND lovers on here and it can sometimes feel like you are being 'jumped on' for speaking your mind, but Mui don't let it get out of control, you are a regular on this site and I know I for one love reading your threads and you are always supportive. Geeg is (thankfully!) a very direct speaker, what she says is how it really is and in this industry it's a rarity to get someone speak without the 'sales pitch' hidden in there somewhere, I know sometimes the truth can get us all a little grouchy, I don't think for one minute she or Sam or anyone else means anything in a hostile manner here towards you, I read the replies from Geeg as simply factual straight talking and I believe you could have taken it the wrong way and reacted like we all do when we feel cornered. So.... take a deep breath....relax!! and I sincerely hope to see more topics from you in the near future. J xxx

Jo jo i think you can say that my orogional post were misunderstood not the other way around my post were simple soft questions the answers that were given were aggressive and i will say again my private life and buissness are being talked about on this board i do not like it .