staff and contracts

[eroom]

Hi,
I would just like to get a little feedback from all you geeks who are employers.

I have a really good staff member who just will not sign the contract i gave her well over a month ago.
she previously worked for herself for may years, is really good at her job but will not sign, what would you guy/gals do.

 

[number1kitty]

Hi has she given a reason for not signing?

 

[lilacm]

Its not optional!! An employment contract is a legal requirement. But if it a specific part of the contract she has a problem with then you could compromise on the terms so that she is happy to sign it.

 

[eroom]

there is a clause in the contract that states that she cannot leave our salon and go to any of the local salons, i know some people disagree with this but a previous salon owner trained up 3 stylists and each of them have opened up their own salons just around the corner causing her to sell up. i dont want this to happen to me as she thinks she can do that if she wants too

 

[Blue Rose]

On my contracts I have a disclaimer stating that 'failure to sign will not invalidate the document' - something like that anyway. Basically it means that just because they don't sign doesn't mean the terms aren't valid.

To have a radius clause is pretty standard but it has to be a reasonable radius of approx 2 miles as you can't stop an individual from earning a living.

The other point is that if she's been with you a month or so now, would imply that she has accepted the terms of contract of employment. This includes the perks like pay, holiday etc as well as the cons like restrictive covenants.

hth

 

[lilacm]

Most people do have a radius clause for a period of 6 months. If it is for longer than this it might be deemed unreasonable anyway in a court. I also know that in practice enforcing this is very costly so probably not feesable.

Can you not change it to a clause saying if she leaves after having training (say within 12 months) she has to repay the costs of the training. This is common in a lot of industries.

I agree with Cogsi that she has sort of implicitly agreed to the contract anyway by carrying on being employed by you. Perhaps you could contact citizens advice for more advice on this though to check.

 

[eroom]

i have contacted acas and citizens.
acas said the same as cogsi, just because they don't sign doesn't mean the terms aren't valid.
and citizen said if she don't sign i could get rid(but i do like the lady)
i think that i just wanted to hear that im not the only one that has restictive clauses in their contracts

i have a radius for 6 months but she is now saying that she has a fear of public transport and has to stay local, and if i dont remove the clause she will have to leave.

 

[ksibet5031]

Hi
Just to say I have recently dealt with an employee that has breeched her contract. It included "restrictive covenants" she chose to ignore and has set up on her own regardless of her obligation to me!
You will find if you take legal advice that these are extremely difficult to enforce due to the "Human rights act". Apparently it is more difficult now than ever before to enforce these contracts. My advice would be to ensure you have claw back on all your training if she does leave you (she probably will if she is refusing to conform already!!) just make sure your not out of pocket when she does go.:!:

 

[Blue Rose]

i have contacted acas and citizens.
acas said the same as cogsi, just because they don't sign doesn't mean the terms aren't valid.
and citizen said if she don't sign i could get rid(but i do like the lady)
i think that i just wanted to hear that im not the only one that has restictive clauses in their contracts

i have a radius for 6 months but she is now saying that she has a fear of public transport and has to stay local, and if i dont remove the clause she will have to leave.[/quote]

Hmmm, sounds to me like she's forgetting who's the boss. I'd be tempted to call her bluff.

You say you like her and she's good at her job. More importantly though, do the clients think so too? Are the majority of them re-booking?

If you were to back down on this matter, would she think she has the upper hand and try it on with other things?

As an employee is she worth giving you all this stress, this early on in her employment?

 

['chelle]

Has this girl given you any reason for not wanting to sign? You need to address this with her, but ultimately, not signing is not an option.

Post contractual clauses are extremely difficult to enforce, and although you may include a clause about her not working within x amount of distance after she leaves her employ with you, it would be quite easy for her to do this anyway. Perhaps if you want to cover yourself, the best thing would be to incorporate a term which states that Clients are the property of xxxx (your salon name) and that she must not discuss any future employment with these clients. In practical terms this would mean that she cannot tell any clients that she is leaving, or where she will be working next. This would be far easier to enforce and you could take legal action against her if she poaches any of your clients if and when she decides to leave. Maybe that would be a bigger deterrent for her to not move away and take your clients with her?

 

[eroom]

Hi cogi, i do think you are right about her thinking that she is boss and we have addressed this before, i also think if i back down on this she will think she can do as she pleases

Chelle
This lady actually worked from home before she came to me so i did incorporate that she could return home for 6 months, then she would be free to go wherever but she said that she wouldn't want to go home and feels she can go wherever she feels.

 

[yogi10]

ideally staff should recieve their contract before they start.
however irecommend you write and confirm that as she is working and receiving the benefits of the contract she is deemed to have accepted the terms
this will protect you ,not signing isnt an option

 

[Lil Ash]

Why dont you both sit down and talk about what you both want? come up with something you both happy with

or

If she moans that she not getting hoilday pay etc!!! say well you didnt sign the contract!!!

:hug:good luck hun xx

 

[Lil Ash]

also if she comes in late or goes home early, lunches breaks sitting around dont pay her

 

[eroom]

Hi all,
thought i would give you all an update, after having had her contract for more than 4 months (unsigned) she has decided that she can't accept the contract - although i have previously explained that the contract stands.
she said that she has never had a contact ever before and she doesn't like having a boss. she would reconsider if she didn't have to adhere to a contract.

 

[number1kitty]

Dosnt matter whether she signs or not, you are both bound by the contents. For example if you say in that contract she gets paid a weeks pay if you sack her this is legally binding even if neither of you have signed. You have given her the contract in written form, but whether this information is written or oral both sides have to abide by it.

If she leaves and poaches your clients (which seems to be the big issue here) is hard to enforce whether she signs or not! Instead you can stop her taking that information off your premises so for example a data protection letter. This will mean if she takes copies of your clients names, addresses and phone numbers she is in breach of the data protection act and you can sue her. However there is nothing stopping her from putting an advert in the papers saying she was a former employee of xxxx salon and now works at xxxx.

Give her a statement of employment, this will lay out your rights and her rights as an employer and employee. But you need to now take into account you cant just 'get rid of her' as she has done a 3 month probationary period. I would however log every mistake she makes (lateness, treatment errors, complaints, Misuse of your phone as this constitutes theft etc, using your products on herself). When you have this list and wish to get rid of her you can simply sack her on gross misconduct.

If she is that difficult I would personally get rid. Or if she is good put her as self employed instead of employed.

As this woman has recieved the contract and is still working for you and excepted the job in the first place means she excepts all conditions of employment set out in that contract. If you suddenly changed a part of your contract say you wanted to reduce her hours etc then you must both agree to this change.

I would write to her and send the letter by recorded delivery. In it state 'Please return the enclosed contract signed within 14 working days, failure to return the signed contract by (DATE)or unless you notify me of a reason for not signing the contract in writing, within this time period then (YOUR SALONS NAME) will assume that you accept the conditions therein.'

If she dosnt write back you have proof you that she is under the terms of the contract, if she disputes any part of the contract then remove or alter that section, anything to get her to sign it and end your headache.

hope this helps

good luck

kate

 

[eroom]

Hi Kate
As already stated i did all of the above, she even took the contract to her solicitors and they just told her that is was standard practice of beauty/hair salons to put restictive covenant in contacts nowadays to protect ourselves.
thats why she is now leaving because i wont remove it for her. it still stand though and i did make sure she understands that.

 

[Blue Rose]

Well good on you for standing your ground.

It might seem sometimes that you cut your nose off to spite your face but employees have to know whose business it actually is & who's the boss.

I'm sure if your ex-employee gets another job in a salon, she'll come up with the same issues like restrictive covenants.

As mentioned by number1kitty she could always mention in ads that she used to work for you. To counter act this I now have it written in my contracts that they can't use my name/business name for future endeavours (sp?). Why should they get clients off the back of your reputation?

Good luck with getting a replacement therapist - not an easy task :cry:

 

[yogi10]

not signing shouldnt be an option
It is best practie toissue the contract before the employee take sup post and then this frustration is avoided.
i would write to her and say that the contract confirms the details of the offer of employment.If she doesnt sign you will deem her to have accepted,if she doesnt wish toaccept the terms then she is free to leave