Wages Problems - Greedy Owners

[Kim Lawless]

It's a 2 way street. Salon owners have so many overheads before they take a penny themselves that you wouldn't believe it. In my area, the average rent for a medium size shop is £40,000 plus rates etc.

Yes, therapist pay is poor but then I blame the therapist. You should all start your own union and stick together. If you're good enough at what you do, then negotiate with the salon owner. If she says, "Well, I pay ££, like it or lump it", then you either walk away or say "Look, I'll tell you what. I'll start on that wage but with a commission of X for ever £ that I take in the salon". Win Win situation.

 

[Kim Lawless]

Here you go. Join the union. I bet you nobody joins because it seems that a lot of you are stuck in this rut of moaning about how hard done by you are. How hard it is to get work. I can't afford it. The Vietnamese................blah blah blah. Get out of victim mode and fight for your rights. Stand up and be counted.

Trades Union Congress
Congress House
Great Russell Street
London
WC1B 3LS
Tel: 020 7636 4030
Fax: 020 7636 0632

 

[weegirl]

That's a good point, try negotiating with your employer first if you are not happy. If your employer is decent enough, he/she will care about your welfare and listen. It is easy though to say not to get stuck in a rut and undervalue yourself, I don't have a problem speaking up for myself and making my point clear (you've probably noticed!) but younger staff are more vulnerable and generally don't have the self confidence or knowledge to easily gain better employment or speak up well enough. It takes a strong person to stand up for what they think is right, especially when they are scared they will be treated differently after or maybe lose their job. The younger you are the harder it is, many are simply too scared to do it. Unfortunately the union will not be able to do anything substantial unless the law has been broken, but for those of you out there that join, you do get legal advice and cover for any tribunal cases if you are treated illegally.

PS - Nobody should feel guilty for making money as long as you haven't made it by taking advantage of others. There was a good point about people getting a taste and wanting more - I know it is easy to forget what it was like to start out, and if I'm perfectly honest, money can be very tempting sometimes, it is easy for morals to be corrupted but there's an old saying that I find very apt, 'be careful how you treat people on the way up, you could meet them on the way down'. It usually beings me back down to earth!

 

[CadenceAlex]

That's a good point, try negotiating with your employer first if you are not happy. If your employer is decent enough, he/she will care about your welfare and listen.

He/she may care about their staffs welfare, however, if the money simply isn't there. It isn't there. As long as their staff are getting the wage set by LAW, what is the problem? I can understand them wanting more if they had to do more work, for example, going that extra mile or being put upon too much, but if they are young and not very experienced (experience comes with maturity and age) then why should they get more money?

It is easy though to say not to get stuck in a rut and undervalue yourself, I don't have a problem speaking up for myself and making my point clear (you've probably noticed!) but younger staff are more vulnerable and generally don't have the self confidence or knowledge to easily gain better employment or speak up well enough. It takes a strong person to stand up for what they think is right, especially when they are scared they will be treated differently after or maybe lose their job. The younger you are the harder it is, many are simply too scared to do it.

These young victims you are referring to, get older - yearly. They get more experienced - yearly. It is down to them to update their skills and be professional and merit receiving more than minimum wage.

Unfortunately the union will not be able to do anything substantial unless the law has been broken, but for those of you out there that join, you do get legal advice and cover for any tribunal cases if you are treated illegally.

THAT is a whole different ball game, treating someone illegally and I do feel you have changed your stance here. At first you were implying that minimum wage is an outrage - there is a difference between breaking the Law and paying Minimum wage. Minimum Wage is not illegal.

PS - Nobody should feel guilty for making money as long as you haven't made it by taking advantage of others. There was a good point about people getting a taste and wanting more - I know it is easy to forget what it was like to start out, and if I'm perfectly honest, money can be very tempting sometimes, it is easy for morals to be corrupted but there's an old saying that I find very apt, 'be careful how you treat people on the way up, you could meet them on the way down'. It usually beings me back down to earth!

No. It is never easy for morals to be corrupted. You either have them or you don't. You are either Moral or Immoral. There is no in between.


ps.. with all your contacts and experience... do you think you could perhaps put me on to someone who provides staff who will work for less than minimum wage?

 

[weegirl]

I have not changed my stance, I was merely pointing out that the union is not a solution if staff are are unhappy but being treated legally as a union does not have power to act sufficiently unless the law has been broken. I am not, and have never been discussing people that maybe get below mininum wage. There other factors to consider when discussing the law being broken, unpaid overtime, workloads, holidays, breaks, ill-treatment etc etc. You seemed to jump on the wages issue, but you could pay mininum rate and still very easily break the law in other areas.

I have never disputed that minimum wage is legal. My point has always been that some salons DO NOT pay staff due to qualificationa and experience, they think that mininum wage is maximun wage. A trainee gets mininum wage, and then they qualify, and guess what - they get mininum wage. They continue to work for a few years, update their training, and still get the same money. They have the responsibilities that go with being a therapist and they bring in the same as someone who has employment like shop work, work with little or no responsibility How does anyone justify that?

As for the moral issue, it is not as black and white to say "you either have morals or you don't". That is to say that temptation and corruption doesn't have any effect on anyone!!! If we were all able to be labelled 'good' or 'bad' and not deviate from that it would be so easy. People can have good morals and be tempted, the issue is, how do you react? That is the test of how strong your personal code of ethics really are.

By the way, there are businesses out there, not just salons, that do pay below mininum wage to people who claim money from the DSS, or to vulnerable workers like migrants. I wasn't planning to bring this issue up as it is a different ballgame and thankfully, it doesn't seem to be as common as it used to be but maybe you are 'good' though and won't think about this at all, or 'bad' and try it. Or maybe you are 'good' and will think about it before refusing. Or you may even be corrupted. Tempted?

Next you'll be saying that every single one of the 'good' salon owners out there pay all of their taxes, not one penny of the cash flow is underdeclared to Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs.

All pigs fed, watered and ready to fly.

 

[minky]

I am not a salon owner, nor have I ever worked in a salon, so... I may not be entirely qualified to contribute to this thread, but... if I did have a salon, I think the way to go would be to pay performance related and profit related bonuses.

Why not? If the profit is there, why not share it with your staff, and if the profit is not there, well neither the salon owner nor the staff will be getting it.

In these few simple lines the point of the matter is here :hug:

 

[jax]

A trainee gets mininum wage, and then they qualify, and guess what - they get mininum wage. They continue to work for a few years, update their training, and still get the same money. They have the responsibilities that go with being a therapist and they bring in the same as someone who has employment like shop work, work with little or no responsibility How does anyone justify that?

I think 'shop work' or 'work with little or no responsibility' is not a lesser job which requires less pay. Some would argue that in fact they are more tedious and less enjoyable jobs and perhaps should get more pay!! Dont forget that therapists enjoy one of the happiest types of jobs - there is alot of bonuses to working in this industry.

If you do some research into what makes happy employees, you'll find its not all about the pay and the profit share, and in my view your comments about staff salaries are naive.

 

[weegirl]

I know this is an old post, but I haven't been by for a long time as I have been so busy.

I think 'shop work' or 'work with little or no responsibility' is not a lesser job which requires less pay..

It most certainly is!!! Basic shop work does not require the level of qualifications and knowledge that is required of a hairdresser or therapist, not to mention the health and safety issues at stake.

Only last week I bumped into an old hairdresser of mine who is now working in a clothes store. When I asked her what she was doing there, she said that she got fed up with being left with the responsibilities of running the salon when the owner cleared off, which was often, for no extra pay or even a thank you. She now sells clothes as she just has to serve, re-stock and gets mininum hassle. She actually gets a better wage as well.

I have been called many things for speaking my mind, but never naive!!!

I was a Certified Chartered Accountant for years before changing career so no offence, but I probably have more knowlege than most about the subject of wages and other business expenses. I don't think I need to explain myself further on this.

 

[weezie]

I have to say I see wee girls point of view. I started working for myself because of this problem. I can't understand why beauty therapists potential earnings in salons are so low when their skills are so high. I earnt less in my first year in a salon than I paid for my training! I now earn more in an hour working for myself than I did in a 6 hour day in a salon.

 

[Kim Lawless]

Reading this thread makes me wonder why more techs don't start a co-op. This is where for example, you would all split the rent and bills of a salon and then work for yourself, keeping any money that you make.

 

[Susie H]

Good post Wee girl, I went back into coach driving because at the age of 43 I needed more then the minimum. I love doing nails, blowing my own trumpet here but my nails are good, I how ever do not want the responsibility of my own business, I just want the satisfaction of doing a good job, i.e. the customer looks at the end result and says wow
But driving a coach gives me £9 an hour a guarantee of 39 hours pay a week even if I do less, paid holiday and my company will match my pension contribution up to 5.45%. of my pay.
I and every nail tech on this site know what it costs to produce a set of nails, we all know the cost of training and we all can calculate the profit margins, its not rocket science. And Wee girls point CadenceAlex is that A PERSON IN THERE 40's HAS A HOME TO RUN NOT A HOME TO RUN TO we are qualified, we are experienced and we are SOMETIMES undervalued in the beauty industry.
Again I will draw on my own life here.
When I started out as a coach driver I was sent for a medical, this cost the company not me £100, my training was paid for, approx £1500, so was my uniform and I was paid a training pay, the day I passed my test, also paid for, my pay rose by nearly £2 an hour. As a nail tech, I have paid for every bit of training my self, all my professional books and magazines all my products, my clothes my advertising and my insurance I have knowingly been taken advantage of in order to gain experience. I was paid £5 per set of nails that the client was paying £25 for and I was using my products. No choice in this I wanted/needed the experience and this person was the only one to give it to me. I looked on it as further training and I did learn a lot from the other techs but don't tell me I wasn't being ripped of.
Final note, My union membership with the extra care, which gives me a top up on ssp is a whole £3.66 a week and while its true that they don't interfere so long as no law is broken, they are there to ask advise on any subject and if you have a disciplinary meeting your boss has to let a union rep come with you to make sure they cant say, as I have read on this site a few times, you're sacked because you want a pay rise, or are refusing to do a treatment you have no training for. Head out of the sand girls, not everyone is as nice as the ladies on here and wee girl is not attacking struggling businesses she is trying to shame the ones who feel the way to get ahead is to tread on YOUR head rather then get YOU to give them a leg up and then pull you up behind them.

 

[Susie H]

Reading this thread makes me wonder why more techs don't start a co-op. This is where for example, you would all split the rent and bills of a salon and then work for yourself, keeping any money that you make.

you posted while I was ranting:lol:
That is a very good idea and one I have thought of a few times, the only problem I can see is that word trust. It takes a lot of it to go into business with someone. Which means knowing them, the techs I know are established already or not doing it any more:cry:

 

[jax]

I have been called many things for speaking my mind, but never naive!!!

I was a Certified Chartered Accountant for years before changing career so no offence, but I probably have more knowlege than most about the subject of wages and other business expenses. I don't think I need to explain myself further on this.

Nurses get paid less than teachers and Fire Fighters get paid less than accountants............its the world we live in. In my view, you should never assume that the person you are talking with on a forum knows less than you!

 

[Susie H]

Nurses get paid less than teachers and Fire Fighters get paid less than accountants............its the world we live in. In my view, you should never assume that the person you are talking with on a forum knows less than you!

The problem with the caring professions is that it is assumed that because you care, you can be white washed into taking less pay and public sector workers have always been paid less then private sector even when the public sector worker is more experienced and better qualified:irked:
But I take your second point:lol: our profiles don't show our passion or qualifications out side of this industry.

 

[oey]

Most jobs in the UK are not paid on the level of training they receive but on how much the going market rate is for that position.

If the job role in question is one where the people are "head hunted" on a regular basis then this tends to drive the salary rate up. This mainly tends to happen when there is a shortage of skiiled people in that field. This may be the reason why hairdressers and therapists have always stayed fairly low paid and my understanding is that more people are training in this industry than there are jobs. Until we are in the position where there are more jobs than trained people then i doubt that this will change.

It is a shame though as I agree we do go through an awful lot of training just to get a "minimum wage".

 

[pinkaholic]

o my god!!!
i cannot believe the awfullness of this whole thread!!
i do not think anyone has the right to comment on salon owners and how they spend their own wages, at the end of the day i have had to re mortgage my home, take personal loans and used personal credit cards in the past to make ends meet! a salon owner will always make sure her staff are paid before we ourselves take our pay, sometimes can go for months with no wage!! we get no help from working tax credit, sick pay or overtime. for the few who can buy BMW's and live the life of luxury good luck to you, its what we all strive for in the end is'nt it!! well done
salon owners are the ones who take the risk, business is always a gamble... you can make a mint or loose everything at least we have the balls to do it!
we take on the staff and train them in house giving them a trade and paying out for valuable training, the perks are free treatments, tanning nails waxing eyelashes sunbeds etc wholesale goodies, what would you get doing 9 to 5 in an office... £6.00 per hour office grumbles and free paper clips woo hoo!:irked: in a salon you have a great working enviroment, different faces everyday, getting to know nice friendly people, i would hate to be stuck in a call center or dealing with complaints all day. plus tax free tips from the clients is a great boost to your earnings!! DONT GRUMBLE!!!!

 

[jac extreme]

o my god!!!
i cannot believe the awfullness of this whole thread!!
i do not think anyone has the right to comment on salon owners and how they spend their own wages, at the end of the day i have had to re mortgage my home, take personal loans and used personal credit cards in the past to make ends meet! a salon owner will always make sure her staff are paid before we ourselves take our pay, sometimes can go for months with no wage!! we get no help from working tax credit, sick pay or overtime. for the few who can buy BMW's and live the life of luxury good luck to you, its what we all strive for in the end is'nt it!! well done
salon owners are the ones who take the risk, business is always a gamble... you can make a mint or loose everything at least we have the balls to do it!
we take on the staff and train them in house giving them a trade and paying out for valuable training, the perks are free treatments, tanning nails waxing eyelashes sunbeds etc wholesale goodies, what would you get doing 9 to 5 in an office... £6.00 per hour office grumbles and free paper clips woo hoo!:irked: in a salon you have a great working enviroment, different faces everyday, getting to know nice friendly people, i would hate to be stuck in a call center or dealing with complaints all day. plus tax free tips from the clients is a great boost to your earnings!! DONT GRUMBLE!!!!

I have to disagree here, there are owners who can and do treat their staff badly and I speak from my own experience here, where a salon I worked in which was closed down one day without giving the staff any notice or paying them wages and holidays owed, I have also all along paid for my own training up to and including grand master, no salon I have worked in have put their hand in their pocket towards my training but they get the benefit of a trained and experienced technician and I think that should be reflected in my wages. I have a home salon, but due to my personal circumstances I decided that I needed to return part time to a salon, luckily for me the manager appreciated my training and is paying me a reasonable salary.

 

[pinkaholic]

i feel bad for you that you must have had a bad experince in your former salon.

i believe i am a fair employer and i wish i could pay my staff much more than they are getting at the moment i feel i offer all of the above and pay for training if itis something that will benifit my salon (not just a random training course in hoopie ear candles or baby massage) i do think its down the the employer, i do belive some peolple traet it as a sweat shop but i feel it was unfair to tar me with the same brush.

i am having staffing issues but in a way i would'nt mind if they left thinking the grass is greener because when they do, they will relise what a good thing thay had :irked:

 

[jac extreme]

i feel bad for you that you must have had a bad experince in your former salon.

i believe i am a fair employer and i wish i could pay my staff much more than they are getting at the moment i feel i offer all of the above and pay for training if itis something that will benifit my salon (not just a random training course in hoopie ear candles or baby massage) i do think its down the the employer, i do belive some peolple traet it as a sweat shop but i feel it was unfair to tar me with the same brush.

i am having staffing issues but in a way i would'nt mind if they left thinking the grass is greener because when they do, they will relise what a good thing thay had :irked:

don't feel bad for me, I fought for what I was owed and got it eventually.

I do not see it written anywhere in this thread that all salon owners are bad, go back and read wee girls posts again and you will see that she is only talking about salon owners that don't pay their staff what they are worth, so unless that applies to you, then you are not being tarred with the same brush.

 

[weezie]

The owners own debts should surely have no effect on the employees pay. These debts and risks taken were a choice.

A therapist should be paid their worth.

If they are not rewarded as they should be your business suffers as employee turnover is high and productivity low. A fair owner is a happy one. No one can judge you harder than yourself.

It is possible for a therapist with good business acumen to set up on their own.

I just feel for those who feel trapped in poorly paid positions as they cannot leave the stability of a set weekly pay packet. This is not every therapist.

Just because other people get poor wages does not make it o.k, I feel sorry for anyone in a highly skilled job with a low wage. Call center workers do not get paid well as they need little training and perform simple tasks on a computer.

I am not saying all salon owners treat their staff badly, but with every business there are some people who just think of making money by using someone short term.