Beauty therapist administering botox/injecting fillers

[essentia]

When I was training to be a beautician a friend of mine, who is a nurse, told me that I had more A&P study than she did!!!

Maybe there should be a degree, for those who want it, in Beauty Therapy which covers a more medically indepth A&P, contra indications, needles, drugs, fillers, lasers etc, times are changing, if you're qualified to give injectables from the beginning with 3 years study with a degree behind you then people will be more protected.

I suggested this in another thread that got quite heated. I think this is the best way forward. The only way to do this at present is a nursing degree, which is not structured towards aesthetic treatments. We need a proper degree course like radiography, physiotherapy etc especially for this area and then everyone would know what should be expected if they want to pursue this career. The trouble is some doctors and nurses are not necessarily suitable for aesthetic work either and it needs some sort of benchmark qualification as it is not usually a placement that is part of their training although undoubtably the life saving skills are. :hug:

 

[TheBack&Beyond]

"Who's the insurance company?"

It's a simple question.

 

[smooth]

I don't know of any insurance company that will insure beauty therapists! I agree you get good and bad within the industry and for those people who decide to go into it just to make some quick cash are doing it for the wrong reason. There are many doctors and dentists out there who are just as compasionate as nurses and there are also nurses out there who make you feel on edge. There is definitely only one way forward and that is to only go to someone you feel comfortable with, will give you all the time you need, not push you into a treatment, be experienced, qualified and be open and honest about whether it is the right treatment for you.

For those who are horrified, all training courses in this area are all over one day, if you then pass the course you will get a certificate but if you don't meet the criteria then any professional company should not issue a certificate, the best way to check this out is see their terms and conditions or ask them. It is then up to the practitioner to obtain supervised practice to ensure they maintain their competence. There are companies out there who will teach delegates fillers and botox in one day, there is also a company down south who teach fillers, botox and dental blocks in one day. I mean you then have to question how capable would you be learning 3 things in one day let alone 2?

If you are going to someone for an injection then make sure they know what they are doing!!!!!!!

The degree course has been brought up on a number of other discussions and I think you should know that there actually is a course available at university to obtain an official qualification in aesthetics. However, it is only open to medical professionals and even then these medical professionals have to already be trained to administer the injections! The university have no intention of opening this up to beauty therapists.
x

 

[essentia]

The degree course has been brought up on a number of other discussions and I think you should know that there actually is a course available at university to obtain an official qualification in aesthetics. However, it is only open to medical professionals and even then these medical professionals have to already be trained to administer the injections! The university have no intention of opening this up to beauty therapists.
x

There is an online postgraduate course for existing practitioners (maybe others) but I think the opportunity to open the subject as a first degree is what is being mentioned here.:hug:

 

[welshbeauty]

This is such a difficult topic.
I saw in an earlier post that a therapist has more A+P study than a nurse, and my best friend who is a nurse said the same to me, it was more in depth.
As for who is the best at administering/performing the treatment, I think it is down to that individual person and their level of pride, care knowledge and attention to detail!
I had fillers done a year ago in a highly reputable london clinic, it was a nurse that did the injections, she did a dental block, I told her repeatedly that it hadnt worked or numbed and she ignored me and carried on, I had tears streaming down my face and she kept saying 'are you sure thats hurting?' I said yes and she just carried on! there was no follow up appointment, My results lasted 6 weeks I went back to complain and was told that some people just 'break down' Hyaluronic acid quicker than others. I understand this is true but after obtaining a few 2nd opinions I have been informed that there is no way it would break down this quickly unless wrongly injected.!!!!
Now I know this is not the case with all nurses but obviously it is some! I know if that was me performing the treatment it would be very very different, there would be more care for the client, on going communication, certainly more attention to detail and perfection and after care and a follow up call at least!!!!!
I think that put my point across!!!!:green:

 

[Lynne Baker]

I did a post graduate qualification in operating department nursing. I'd be very surprised if a beauty therapist has a more indepth knowledge of A & P than a theatre nurse. A regular RGN might not have a comprehensive grasp of A & P though!

 

[welshbeauty]

Sure there are different levels.
I do know the the A&P on the endocrine system and structure on the skin and hair comes from a doctor degree.:idea:

 

[Lynne Baker]

That depends on what area a nurse chooses to specialise in; a dermatology nurse is going to know a lot about the skin, and a diabetic nurse is going to know a great deal about endocrinology.

 

[essentia]

That depends on what area a nurse chooses to specialise in; a dermatology nurse is going to know a lot about the skin, and a diabetic nurse is going to know a great deal about endocrinology.

This is a good point and highlights the diversity of those that may go on to do a one day course even with a nursing background.

 

[smooth]

Lynne that is a sweeping statement to make that a theatre nurse knows more than an RGN. Most theatre nurses are RGNs and I would argue that most RGNs on a ward or in community had more knowledge of health conditions than a theatre nurse. It's all to do with losing your clinical skills, you cannot maintain these effectively if you spend your time scrubbing up or assisting anaesthetists. There are trusts out there that do not see the need for a scrub assistant to be qualified. One trust even said, you don't need a degree to pass instruments to a surgeon. Now this comment was a bit degrading but when I had a c-section in Lincolnshire a health care assistant acted as the scrub nurse!!

I know both nursing and beauty staff and I have to say that none of my nursing friends agree that they did not go into depth when studying nurses. Some of these nurses also did beauty (some before and some after nursing when they went into giving chemical peels and wanted to know how to do a facial massage!) and they found the beauty courses so easy. Obviously this is their opinion which they are entitled to but when you think about it logically, nursing is at level 6 (degree) and 7 (masters) but beauty therapy is at level 3, common sense prevails to say that higher levels of study will be more indepth and contain a harder content.

Would I let a beauty therapist inject me? No. Would I go to the likes of the bigger clinics to get a nurse or doctor to inject me? No. I want to go to somewhere that I will not be pushed into having treatments just so the nurse of doctor can meet their monthly sales targets.

This topic really is devils advocate, but I haven't seen any bt admiting they inject botox or fillers and most people say they don't agree with it, it really makes you wonder whether these people training beauty therapists will stop.

IHAS and the government will never support bt doing these treatments and a course for them to do it even at level 6 I assume will never be passed. There is a general thought going round that one day they will only allow prescribers to administer botox which means that those nurses who are not prescribers will not be able to do it in the future.

 

[Lynne Baker]

Lynne that is a sweeping statement to make that a theatre nurse knows more than an RGN. Most theatre nurses are RGNs and I would argue that most RGNs on a ward or in community had more knowledge of health conditions than a theatre nurse. It's all to do with losing your clinical skills, you cannot maintain these effectively if you spend your time scrubbing up or assisting anaesthetists. There are trusts out there that do not see the need for a scrub assistant to be qualified. One trust even said, you don't need a degree to pass instruments to a surgeon. Now this comment was a bit degrading but when I had a c-section in Lincolnshire a health care assistant acted as the scrub nurse!!

I know both nursing and beauty staff and I have to say that none of my nursing friends agree that they did not go into depth when studying nurses. Some of these nurses also did beauty (some before and some after nursing when they went into giving chemical peels and wanted to know how to do a facial massage!) and they found the beauty courses so easy. Obviously this is their opinion which they are entitled to but when you think about it logically, nursing is at level 6 (degree) and 7 (masters) but beauty therapy is at level 3, common sense prevails to say that higher levels of study will be more indepth and contain a harder content.

Would I let a beauty therapist inject me? No. Would I go to the likes of the bigger clinics to get a nurse or doctor to inject me? No. I want to go to somewhere that I will not be pushed into having treatments just so the nurse of doctor can meet their monthly sales targets.

This topic really is devils advocate, but I haven't seen any bt admiting they inject botox or fillers and most people say they don't agree with it, it really makes you wonder whether these people training beauty therapists will stop.

IHAS and the government will never support bt doing these treatments and a course for them to do it even at level 6 I assume will never be passed. There is a general thought going round that one day they will only allow prescribers to administer botox which means that those nurses who are not prescribers will not be able to do it in the future.

Woah, hang on a sec here.
I said theatre nurses, not ODPs. All theatre nurses are RGNs (unless there are some ENs still hanging around).

I do take umbrage that you suggest that a theatre nurse has lost their clinical skills! Bloody hell!

 

[welshbeauty]

That depends on what area a nurse chooses to specialise in; a dermatology nurse is going to know a lot about the skin, and a diabetic nurse is going to know a great deal about endocrinology.

Exactly, but any nurse can go on a one day course to learn how to inject botox and fillers.

I agree that maybe a BT shouldnt be able to do the procedures after a 1 day training course but after study practice and perfecting I really dont see the problem!

 

[essentia]

One thing is for sure times are changing. There is a university in the USA offering a degree combining nursing and esthetician qualifications. There are also courses for 'clinical esthetiticans' as well recognising that the industry is evolving. The beauty industry is so vague with one day courses for those who think it is an easy ride to advanced therapists with years of expertise that are struggling to get the advanced training and recognition they deserve. It really is time for a shake up whatever the view point.

 

[wonderwoman]

Please dont get angry with me, but i firmly believe that no beauty therapist should ever do interjectables.

i think to assume that knowing more A+p than a nurse you've gota be joking! I know more A+P than a BT coz ive got two good degrees of knowledge. pratice & knowledge are two very different things and to ASSUME that you may have more knowledge than the average joe nurse..ppl do not walk around as textbooks!

to answer back and beyonds question,

you cannot be insured....how do i know this, number of gp/nurse clients if they wish to add interjectables they do not go on a one day course, they go on 1-2 year in depth course based on fillers/botox, chemical peels & numerous additions that should only be admistersed by dentists/nurses & doctors.
to reiterated they are only allowed to go on the course providing their prescribing number(GDC/BDC/NMC Number). they are only ones whom it can fall back onto. therefore a BT to admister this would require one of these degrees as a foundation.

I feel that there is pure ignorance that someone would think a one day course is available for BTs, no accreditation board would EVER risk this to be allowed in the wrong hands.

Many of the people i went to university with had constant assessment weekly, and the pass rate is ridiculous to say the least. ive just had a friend after an additional 5 years and around £50,ooo on top of thier degree to be able to admister numerous other treatments for thier clinic. they had labs which contained working on patients/each others muscles and postmortons on donated bodies. AND to think that any BT could just rock up by watching someone else....says it all doesnt it!

I honestly dont want to offend anyone but would like to educate ppl that this is hard work. Many nurses have to inject into a plastic arm prior to learning and then grasp working on patients...but this shouldnt be seen as EASY. HThs xoxo

 

[welshbeauty]

There are some points made that I completely agree with.

Im not saying I have more knowledge than a nurse in A&P in general but in some areas then yes.

Unfortunatly beauty therapists often have the reputation of being stupid and a cop out, i take my work so seriously and am truely passionate like so many others on here. I love to learn and excell in the science in beauty, I just feel there should be the option for us to take our field further, and yes put in the study time and learn....why not? Im no different to a nurse as a person I was certainly intelligent enough to have obtained a nursing degree, I chose to be a beauty therapist?

Thats not a dig at anyone.x

 

[Kim Lawless]

I would do it if I could and I think that as beauty therapists, we have a better 'aesthetic eye'. I've seen lots of dodgy Botox and fillers carried out by docs and dentists.

It all comes down to insurance at the end of the day. Having said that, let's remind ourselves that treatment/surgery carried out by private cosmetic surgeons has no governing body in the UK so they could wreck our bodies and there's nothing we could do, aside from sue them privately.

So it seems that anyone can train to do Botox and Fillers if the trainers allowed. However, you wouldn't be allowed to work afterwards unless you found a company to insure you.

 

[smooth]

I did a post graduate qualification in operating department nursing. I'd be very surprised if a beauty therapist has a more indepth knowledge of A & P than a theatre nurse. A regular RGN might not have a comprehensive grasp of A & P though!

Here is what I commented on, I may have mis-read this but what it reads as to me is that a bt does not have more A & P knowledge than a theatre nurse but a regular RGN may not know as much (is this as a beauty therapist or compared to a theatre nurse?) One of my colleagues went for a job in a walk in centre after spending years in theatre and they said they were concerned about her clinical skills as she had been in theatre for many years. So there are people out there who agree that you do de-skill if you do not use your skills for some time or on a regular basis.

A bt for sure knows more about the anatomy of a nail than a nurse as this is not covered in nursing, but everything else pertaining to anatomy and physiology (basically all the body systems) is studied at a chemical and micro level too. The comment about medical staff doing 1 - 2 years and not a day learning to administer botox is ridiculous. Look up botox training and you will see it is pretty much all over a days duration.

Even though legally anyone can give an injection under the direction of a prescriber it does not mean that anyone should be able to do this.

 

[pazzy]

Erm, my beauty exam in the 90's was no picnic, I had to know the origins, actions and insertions of superficial muscles (we were asked to name 4 - so had to know them all) This was mainly for using faradic machines so we knew exactly which muscle we were stimulating, also motor points, a cross section of the skin and to label each layer of skin. my electrolysis exam required me to know the blood system, a cross section of the hair which we had to draw and label also the endocrine system in depth, then the body anatomy which we had to know all muscle groups, and the bones of the bosy and design a series of exercises for each muscle. Plus so much more, like chemistry and physics

Electrolysis - involves sliding a fine needle alongside the hair - IN the skin, but even after all my experience, knowledge and qualifications - I am only good to paint nails, wasted my time then I think.

Like I say, I don't wish to do this - but if I wanted to - I think I should have the option. The people I meet in beauty are intelligent and knowledgable, they chose to do beauty rather than the medical side thats all.

 

[welshbeauty]

Erm, my beauty exam in the 90's was no picnic, I had to know the origins, actions and insertions of superficial muscles (we were asked to name 4 - so had to know them all) This was mainly for using faradic machines so we knew exactly which muscle we were stimulating, also motor points, a cross section of the skin and to label each layer of skin. my electrolysis exam required me to know the blood system, a cross section of the hair which we had to draw and label also the endocrine system in depth, then the body anatomy which we had to know all muscle groups, and the bones of the bosy and design a series of exercises for each muscle. Plus so much more, like chemistry and physics

Electrolysis - involves sliding a fine needle alongside the hair - IN the skin, but even after all my experience, knowledge and qualifications - I am only good to paint nails, wasted my time then I think.

Like I say, I don't wish to do this - but if I wanted to - I think I should have the option. The people I meet in beauty are intelligent and knowledgable, they chose to do beauty rather than the medical side thats all.

I couldnt agree more!

 

[smooth]

Erm, my beauty exam in the 90's was no picnic, I had to know the origins, actions and insertions of superficial muscles (we were asked to name 4 - so had to know them all) This was mainly for using faradic machines so we knew exactly which muscle we were stimulating, also motor points, a cross section of the skin and to label each layer of skin. my electrolysis exam required me to know the blood system, a cross section of the hair which we had to draw and label also the endocrine system in depth, then the body anatomy which we had to know all muscle groups, and the bones of the bosy and design a series of exercises for each muscle. Plus so much more, like chemistry and physics

Electrolysis - involves sliding a fine needle alongside the hair - IN the skin, but even after all my experience, knowledge and qualifications - I am only good to paint nails, wasted my time then I think.

Like I say, I don't wish to do this - but if I wanted to - I think I should have the option. The people I meet in beauty are intelligent and knowledgable, they chose to do beauty rather than the medical side thats all.

I do know what is included in nursing the beauty therapy course plus all the exams pertaining to both, as I have done both and I can say that the beauty side was easy especially in comparison to what I had to study at university as it was degree level. The topics go to a much greater depth and quite frankly the exams were based on nursing aspects as well as A & P. I still have my A & P exam, I'll post an example of it shortly so you can see what people mean when they say the knowledge that nursing and medical staff have is far greater than a bt.

Having said that I have never once said beauty therapists are not intelligent and please don't ever feel the need to say that all you're good for is to paint nails! xx