Beauty therapist administering botox/injecting fillers

[smooth]

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't being derogatory when I said the bt course was easy, I in particular didn't find it hard but others might have. It's so easy to take written words out of context.

The majority of bt do a fab job (I have seen someone with quite a severe wax burn, but in every profession there are good and bad professionals working in each industry/area) and I take my hat off to every person who does it, you make us look and feel great but I still stand by my thoughts on a bt should not inject any POM or medical device just as much as there are some nursing and medical staff who should not due to being financially greedy or not having the right aptitude. x

 

[wonderwoman]

The problem is no one is offending anyones capabilities, intelliegence or abilities to do these courses. They just are not available for beauty therapists.

I worked with NUS for several years and and to think people disregard education that a one day course is viable. Thing with these one day so called exam boards....they can get into serious trouble as many are not APPROVED, and can be investigated deeply from any claims made against medical staff, to the extent that their licences can be revoked.

In fact to these 1-2 year courses can be spilt into modules over a period of time to allow nurses to be able to admister these. im not offending anyone merely letting you guys that wish to do it about the education and legisaltion over it.

Do you think when h1n1 virus aka swine flu that medical staff went on one day courses?! nope they when on seminars, got information on theory, symptoms. Spent loads on taxpayers money so we could all be protected...now if you want to be in the same boat as medical staff, you gota put the effort in.

Couple of worse case sceniros:
Would you prefer a bt with maybe 5 years experience over a doctor?
Now if you had a client that had an adverse reaction to say botox....would you be able to help them asap?

I do agreee with kim lawless that bt have a more "asthetic eye" and that it COULD be available, problem is defining the title;
would you be a nurse?....no
a doctor?.....no
a dentist?......no
a specialist?......nope
a beauty therapist?.....duh obviously.... but is it regulated...in the uk nope.....so how would you know?

there are loopholes available for those thay have qualified, registered with the Health Professionals Council (HPC) and that they are an accredited member of an health organisation.....is it regulated yes... but with constant assessments.
if we had this in the beauty industry then you could happly wish to do whatever you liked.
This october the hse regulatition are changing for a certain number of treatments that prior to OCTOBER 2010 ppl had been paying for health & safety officers to come to salons.

HYPOTHECTICALLY? HOW will this be regulated if this does comes into power? i know ppl REALLY want to do this but how would you be shown as a TRUE profession (coz we know alot cowgirls/novices out there)...what exams would you do?

now please dont get me wrong i trained really hard to get to where i am now and i know its not easy, but realistically if someone really wants to do interjectables they must put in the time & energy. HTHs xoxo

 

[essentia]

Don't you think that this is why a degree as a clinical aesthetician is preferable? Candidates would have to have the entry requirements of course but it is no different than applying for a nursing degree. By the way I agree with Pazzy about the beauty exams back then. In the late 80's and early 90's I applied for a radiography degree course and a RGN course and was accepted on both with just my beauty qualifications! I ended attending one of the courses but it was not for me and I dropped out. I have a degree now but not in these subjects. I say this as a lot of therapists have more than just beauty qualifications and are quite capable of putting enough brain cells together to acheive entry level requirements and degree level status.

 

[smooth]

That covers a lot yes. Some companies run one day courses and you get lots of experience, others run courses where you only inject one area which is by no means proficient. It is then up to the person who has trained to undergo supervision or mentorship to ensure they obtain more skills if they have chosen to go to a company who do not value practical experience. Also though, it is up to the person getting the injection to ensure they ask all the necessary questions to make sure they are in the hands of someone competent and insured as not all allied health professionals can get insurance in this area.

Self regulation can only do so much (IHAS) but the potential patient needs to make sure they are happy with who they are being injected by. x

 

[welshbeauty]

Smooth and Wonder Woman:

I agree so strongly with somany of your points.

I just feel it is so wrong that a stop or a cap should be put on our level of learning. If a bt has a full NVQ L3 or equivalent shown (as an example) 10 years experience and experience in the most advanced treatments availible and THEN is prepared to work hard, study, learn, be assessed and re-assessed for example attend X amount of lectures, do home work then go back to do practical assesments, then it really should be allowed.

I have seriously considered quitting beauty therapy to go to university and retrain just to be able to do injectibles the only thing stopping me is that I am not in the position to be able to take a career break financially,But A degree level course where you submit case studies based on grasping all areas required along with ongoing practical assesments then I would be signing up tomorrow!

 

[smooth]

Smooth and Wonder Woman:

I agree so strongly with somany of your points.

I just feel it is so wrong that a stop or a cap should be put on our level of learning. If a bt has a full NVQ L3 or equivalent shown (as an example) 10 years experience and experience in the most advanced treatments availible and THEN is prepared to work hard, study, learn, be assessed and re-assessed for example attend X amount of lectures, do home work then go back to do practical assesments, then it really should be allowed.

I have seriously considered quitting beauty therapy to go to university and retrain just to be able to do injectibles the only thing stopping me is that I am not in the position to be able to take a career break financially,But A degree level course where you submit case studies based on grasping all areas required along with ongoing practical assesments then I would be signing up tomorrow!

It is a very touchy subject isn't it?. I still don't think this will happen as only a prescriber can direct someone to administer an injection, if you try to get one of these to plan and implement a 1 - 2 year long course it would probably cost £100,000 + per year; around £36,000 for the taught sessions; 1 a week for 52 weeks then for assessment marking, writing of course material etc would be on top. The other issue is if you have level 3 you would then need a diploma level 5 which is 120 credits before you can progress to a degree course level 6 which is another 120 credits, which cannot be done in 2 years unfortunately.

If there are any bt injecting after attending a one day course, how safe do they feel, are they supported, how do they handle problems and are they complying with the law pertaining to Prescription Only Medicine Act 1968? Is everyone aware that if you have a vial of botox in one patients name and you have some left so rather than throw it away you inject it into a different person, this is breaking that law and is punishable by a fine and/or imprisonment. If you inject someone without the patient having a consultation with the prescriber then you are then liable for the administration and the prescription; which as a bt you are not legally able to do.

It is actually more than just injecting botox or feeling that you are capable of doing it there are so many legal restrictions that it is quite scary. That said there are many medical professionals out there who break this law also and we can only wait to see if they are made an example of.

Ok daft question but what is the difference between the blue and yellow smiley faces?
x

 

[pazzy]

Smooth - that is why I have no desire to do it. I would rather go and train to be a vet LOL (I know this is even harder haha)

I also agree that for the sake of the public and out beloved clients - that a 1 day course is not good for any of us. But problems do arise from anything we do in beauty and doctors are not exempt from making mistakes either.

We had this argument over IPL treatments not that long ago because medical professionals wanted to be the only ones to carry it out - things have changed. But I often wonder if electrolysis was new today - would we beauty therapists be allowed to carry this out. I doubt it.

Perhaps one day this will be resolved.

x

 

[SusanEvian]

The money is not always that good, and people think it is. some of the better brands you may be paying £120 for a vial, and it can be easy to use more than 1.

So by the time you have your costs and sundries and salon costs, and a decent liability insurance, people want "sew" at the drop of a hat!!! (not like the ones posted above, who will run a mile because of a loop hole) you are not always making really good money.

Its not worth it, and this is why we get expert doctors and nurses in and make commission, they take care of the rest.


Su x

 

[pazzy]

Its not worth it, and this is why we get expert doctors and nurses in and make commission, they take care of the rest.


Su x

Definitely the best way round this IMO.

 

[smooth]

Smooth - that is why I have no desire to do it. I would rather go and train to be a vet LOL (I know this is even harder haha)

I also agree that for the sake of the public and out beloved clients - that a 1 day course is not good for any of us. But problems do arise from anything we do in beauty and doctors are not exempt from making mistakes either.

We had this argument over IPL treatments not that long ago because medical professionals wanted to be the only ones to carry it out - things have changed. But I often wonder if electrolysis was new today - would we beauty therapists be allowed to carry this out. I doubt it.

Perhaps one day this will be resolved.

x

A vet? At least your clients now don't bite you lol. It takes longer to be a vet than a doctor you know, go figure! Much respect for anyone who does that. I know a nurse who has just left a well known clinic in Manchester as all she did was laser treatments. Do you offer it Pazzy? I bought an LHE but the hand piece is just too large to use for smaller or curved locations.

Absolutely agree doctors are not exempt and they are in fact better protected than nurses, there is a doctor in Liverpool who was suspended by the GMC for inappropriately prescribing controlled drugs to drug addicts, took illegal substances at his GP desk, had a vagrant in his flat who was found dead from suspicious circumstances..... quite a few months later they gave him his registration back!!! Then there was the story of a nurse who was claiming incapacity benefit or something for a year whilst she was working as a nurse and she was removed from the register for not upholding the reputation of the nursing profession. How extreme was that, ok she was wrong but allowing the dr to continue to practice and removing the nurses name from the register doesn't seem quite even does it?

x

 

[pazzy]

I used to do IPL and loved it - but that was when I had a salon a good while ago - I'm currently just doing bridal make-up and bits of beauty for brides - I think this is all I am doing for the next few years. Keeping it simple. LOL.

But yes I found it tricky with upper lips on people who had very small gap beteween lip and nose - I remember having to cut wax strips out to cover the lip line - I'm sure the machines are now far advanced then when I was doing it. But I will always reccomend it to those looking for a solution to problematic hair. I used to do a mix of electrolysis on white hair and IPL on the dark hair - worked really well.

 

[smooth]

Working with brides is not always simple lol!

 

[spoilt]

you have to be a qualified and reg nurse to administer botox, i think fillers come under a different rule... i have an rgn who comes here to give my lovlies botox . she gets her botox prescribed from a plastic surgeon , she consults if she isnt happy she dosnt do it. she takes photos just for your progress reports, then comes back 2 weeks late to check up. she said you cant get insurance unless you are RGN Reg... fillers erm ile ask her x

 

[smooth]

The legal difference between fillers and botox is that fillers are a medical device and as such do not require a prescription so any professional can hold stock of them no questions asked. The manufacturers of fillers will not sell to beauty therapists though as they think only nurses, doctors and dentists should inject them. This is also the opinion of the IHAS who are the self regulatory body for non surgical injectables.

Hope this helps?

 

[botoxwales]

You cannot administer an injection by default of someone else being on the premises. You must have your own insurance and that is a fact, if a claim occurred then the person administering it would not have cover so they would be accountable for paying all the legal fees and compensation.

If you want to wax or file nails without insurance that's still not ideal but any claim arising from that would not be vast surely? Botox is a POM and needs to be prescribed, fillers are medical devices but still have the potential of going wrong, it can lead to necrosis of the skin.

Every bt is not the same but I would question how much medical knowledge a bt can have if they haven't spent years training to be a medical professional.

I have botox done (no surprise from my name ha ha) but would never get it done by a bt, I'm quite happy to stick to my dentist and nurse.

Agreed. Trained medical professional only....

 

[pazzy]

I think one of the geeks on here is actually doing her nursing so that she can do botox.

I think if your determined you will succeed.

xx

 

[smooth]

Even when she qualifies she will find it even more difficult as newly qualified nurses face difficulties with administering botox. The reason for this is you cannot prescribe. In order to prescribe you need 3 years post registration experience before you can even apply for the 6 month university course.

 

[smooth]

There are so many people in the industry saying nurses who are not prescribers should not be doing botox injections, when she qualifies she is then governed by the NMC who come down like a ton of bricks if you go against NMC standards. Whoever she is, tell her to be extra careful.

 

[Skinesthetics]

I've just started doing botox and fillers, and I'm also a nurse prescriber. On the course I did, there were people who were not prescribers, and the training organisation gave a list of doctors who prescribe remotely - at a cost of around £40 per prescription. The NMC are not happy about remote prescribing, but realistically I don't know what they'll do about it - it's accepted practice in lots of health settings. Life is a lot easier if you're a prescriber, and the insurance companies are certainly happier - I don't know if the insurance is cheaper for NPs though.

 

[smooth]

No insurance is based upon how much income you earn over the year, the more income the more treatments you undertake and the greater the risk of having a complaint. It goes in bands, with HFIS, you can get a basic policy to cover up to £45,000. Higher than that it costs more for the premium up to the next band etc.

Remote prescribing is not accepted practice and even though MHRA state consultations do not need to be face to face, NMC do not think it is acceptable and state it goes against their standards. GMC state that remote prescribing via telephone or other means is acceptable in set conditions which is not the way most nurses are administering botox.

When a claim is made the NMC will ensure the nurse answers to their panel, which could mean getting struck off the register