Benefit Fraudsters

[Annie23]

I know Ruth, the mind boggles, seriously it depressed me no end when I found out, luckily I bounce back quickly. I had even started designing my leaflets etc and since I found out I still hav'nt done any work on them. You might remember me asking you about a website!! But to be fair I am rather inundated with my caring role at the moment its pretty full on.

Regarding working on the side I forgot to add, I can understand how some people end up doing it as it is the only way to put food on the table. Has anyone been watching the documentary series How The Other Half Lives? Not everyone is a scrounger, some people are victims of their circumstances and cannot get out, I have seen this first hand being a secondary school teacher by profession. Not everyone no matter how hard they try have the ability to become a success in life and I can understand how some people would choose to stay on benefits if they are worse off financially in employment. Personally I wouldn't dare work on the side (besides I am too honest anyway) I cannot afford to get a criminal record it would be the end of my teaching career, something I worked hard for!

anne xx

 

[Ruth Mills]

I know Ruth, the mind boggles, seriously it depressed me no end when I found out, luckily I bounce back quickly. I had even started designing my leaflets etc and since I found out I still hav'nt done any work on them. You might remember me asking you about a website!! But to be fair I am rather inundated with my caring role at the moment its pretty full on.

Regarding working on the side I forgot to add, I can understand how some people end up doing it as it is the only way to put food on the table. Has anyone been watching the documentary series How The Other Half Lives? Not everyone is a scrounger, some people are victims of their circumstances and cannot get out, I have seen this first hand being a secondary school teacher by profession. Not everyone no matter how hard they try have the ability to become a success in life and I can understand how some people would choose to stay on benefits if they are worse off financially in employment. Personally I wouldn't dare work on the side (besides I am too honest anyway) I cannot afford to get a criminal record it would be the end of my teaching career, something I worked hard for!

anne xx

I can quite see how some people would need to work on the side! Imagine if you've been working full-time and have run up a shed load of debts on credit cards and whatnot. Then you get made unemployed, or have an accident or illness, or something like that, and end up on benefits. The Government only give you enough money for what they think you should be able to feed yourself and afford the basics. Not to pay the banks back what you owe them! And the banks can turn pretty nasty if they aren't getting their money back! So people might well turn to working "on the side" as well as claiming benefits, just to satiate the evil banks!!!

 

[Annie23]

I can quite see how some people would need to work on the side! Imagine if you've been working full-time and have run up a shed load of debts on credit cards and whatnot. Then you get made unemployed, or have an accident or illness, or something like that, and end up on benefits. The Government only give you enough money for what they think you should be able to feed yourself and afford the basics. Not to pay the banks back what you owe them! And the banks can turn pretty nasty if they aren't getting their money back! So people might well turn to working "on the side" as well as claiming benefits, just to satiate the evil banks!!!

totally agree!! what the government sees as enough for you to survive is also ludicrous, would like to see them living on that amount

anne xx

 

[Ruth Mills]

totally agree!! what the government sees as enough for you to survive is also ludicrous, would like to see them living on that amount

anne xx

No, like someone else already said, they just get "expenses" for Duck Houses, mortgages on second homes, moat cleaning, etc...

 

[Urban Geek]

I am not sure whatI would do as it would depend on the individual's circumstances and if they had children, etc. I have known people to claim whilst doing some nails, beauty or other work but they were genuinely in need of those benefits and were just keeping their head above water.

Sometimes people get into a rut and it is sheer survival which forces them to fraudulently claim.

It is people who think the world owes them a living and have no intention whatsoever of doing an honest days work that rile me. Also people who won't work because they get so much in benefits that they would not be much more better off - they would be far better off even if it meant just breaking even because they would have better self esteem and feel a much more valued member of society. I think our benefits system holds a lot of people back and is detrimental rather than beneficial really.

I would hate to report someone with children or if they are genuinely struggling because sometimes other circumstances lead to the situation.

If I knew someone was very financially ok already and making fraudulent claims I think I would report them. If it was a friend or member of the family, I would give them the opportunity to stop and I think I would tell them I would report them otherwise. Honesty can get you into trouble sometimes but ...

 

[brittone05]

I beleive the government states that aside from rent and council tax, the level of finaince required to "live" is little above £6 per day! My step son receives "job seekers allowance" at £42 per week - they pay his rent and council tax while he lives in a room above a shop costing £55 a week but heat, food, light, hygiene and everything else MUST come out of his £42 a week. I can see why he is so depressed and looking to sign up to the army!

 

[minky]

I vote NO I never have and never could report anyone ... for the same reasons as Kim and Bagpuss :hug:

 

[Lady_Nightshade]

I voted that I would if I held a grudge....

Its not so much that I would hold a grudge against someone enough to report them Just for that reason, because that is petty tbh.

But I couldnt answer for defiante Yes I would, because I know that if there were certain people I know who were doing it I Wouldnt shop them in. I also would never shop my family in if they were to do it, but Id sure give their ears a good chewing.

I think really for me, if I knew it was happening, if I could prove it and if it was being done for greedy purposes by someone to lazy to be bothered to work then I would report them.

 

[Emmaejc23]

A very contentious issue !!

I have actually voted No!!............which has even surprised me

Maybe a few months ago I would have been a Yes, but after all that has happened lately I don't think I would fire someone in, unless it was a very serious case.

To be honest after all the Frauds that our 'esteemed 'Members of Parliament have got away with, I really get wound up when I hear the shop a benefit thief ad on the Radio!!

It just screams of double standards,...I mean if you are an MP you can claim expenses for a house you don't even have a mortgage for and only get a slap on the wrist , but if you are a single parent trying your best to get by and you maybe do a few sets of nails on the side for cash you can end up with a criminal record !!!

I know there are more serious cases, but trust me it is usually the easy target that gets caught and gets the book flung at them, and not the serial benefit thieves who are making a fortune. Mainly because there is not enough money to fund the major investigations it would take to get evidence, the Governments is too bust giving it to MP's for their Duck Houses and the like

I agree totally, I know a lot of people who fraudulantly claim benefits or just can't be bothered to get a job and beleive me it sometimes makes my blood boil. But to be perfectly honest i would rather the money went to 'normal' people than some hypocrit who already has a fat salary and pretends to care about the welfare of this country. Also i think a lot depends on circumstances. Since the advent of the welfare state the rate of benefits has been set at well below the subsistence level so I can understand if people in dire circumstances might claim a little extra in order to make ends meet (obviously this does not apply to the people who make a career out of claiming benefits, i'm talking about the people who have little choice). I suppose it boils down to the fact that it is the system that is at fault.

 

[Bonkers]

I really believe that the government just want to hold you back after the meeting i had at the job centre last week in order to further myself left me feeling like there was little hope for anybody who really does want to just get along in life. Im lucky I have my parents who do still help me out with money alot, I have no idea how i would cope without them this not only scares me but depresses me as being 26 and not able to stand on my own 2 feet financially is not a very good feeling.

After what i was told i walked out wondering why the hell I struggle along, often work late nights for less money than i would get on benefits and other people get so much more for falsely claiming for all sorts. It does anger me but there is little I can do about it apart from keep going, and hopefully one day I will be able to think 'oh this week I can treat myself to a new dress' lol. (just my thing as i was a complete shopaholic before having a child)

ANOTHER thing that winds me up no end is that my ex who isnt paying any child support what so ever has a lovely new bmw and claiming he is out of work, but actually has a business of his own, I have called the tax evasion helpline and they did nothing, the csa said if he was earning it cash in hand there was little i could do to prove it. He even has a page on facebook, but they said its not proof enough!

oooooooooh im feeling myself getting annoyed.

 

[Ruth Mills]

I really believe that the government just want to hold you back after the meeting i had at the job centre last week in order to further myself left me feeling like there was little hope for anybody who really does want to just get along in life. Im lucky I have my parents who do still help me out with money alot, I have no idea how i would cope without them this not only scares me but depresses me as being 26 and not able to stand on my own 2 feet financially is not a very good feeling.

After what i was told i walked out wondering why the hell I struggle along, often work late nights for less money than i would get on benefits and other people get so much more for falsely claiming for all sorts. It does anger me but there is little I can do about it apart from keep going, and hopefully one day I will be able to think 'oh this week I can treat myself to a new dress' lol. (just my thing as i was a complete shopaholic before having a child)

ANOTHER thing that winds me up no end is that my ex who isnt paying any child support what so ever has a lovely new bmw and claiming he is out of work, but actually has a business of his own, I have called the tax evasion helpline and they did nothing, the csa said if he was earning it cash in hand there was little i could do to prove it. He even has a page on facebook, but they said its not proof enough!

oooooooooh im feeling myself getting annoyed.

Grr, they should really get their neck out and go after him! I mean a new BMW - they cost shed loads! Probably at least 20 grand! I've seen those telly programmes where they go after all the cheats - why not him???

 

[mannipatch]

I have voted No for the same reasons as Kim and Bagpuss. I just could not do it. I would feel like it but to actually pick up the phone and do it is a no, no.
A long time ago I was a struggling single parent working 12 hour night shifts to pay my mortgage, car, utilities etc including divorce (ex-hubby was out of work, on purpose, so he would have no contribution to make), my child-minder (which was £50 a week and there was no help in them days with child minding). There were no tax credits and no free play schools. I had just been refused legal aid to help with my divorce (they said my income was too high and did not take into account child minding expenses), at the same time my car was hit by a hit and run (fortunately we weren't in it) was drove in all up the side, insurance was 3rd party so could not claim. Aerial was a steel coat hanger (cause I couldn't afford to get a new one). And I needed the radio to keep me awake after working hard for 12 hours through the night, getting to bed at 7am to get up again to pick my child up from school at 12am. Go through the motions of the day and leave again at 5pm to start the shift again at 6pm. I was tired, I missed my child, I was going through a difficult divorce, my car was messed up and I just could not seem to keep my head above water (the interest rate had went up to 15%), I had just been refused legal aid and my neighbours who did not work and were on benefit, perfectly healthy male and female with 2 kids drove up with their brand new spanking car. Well I looked out at that car and at them - I looked at my car and at me - did I feel like reporting them, of course I did. Instead I cried for a bit (feeling sorry for myself) and then I got up and thanked god for all I had. Because the car was a wreck but at least I still had wheels, the husband was crap but at least I had the good sense to get shot of him and I had a house which was mine and my son's, which I paid for with an honest day's work because I was healthy and able. My child was happy and healthy and I had a lot to be thankfull for. Have I ever regretted not reporting them? No, but I think I would have if I had. People must do what is right for them but it would not be right for me as a person.

 

[leonnib]

no i wouldnt as i woudnt get involved. yes its wrong but everyones circumstances are different.

in some circumstances maybe i would but it really depends on that.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think if you disagree strongly enough with benefit fraud to actually report someone then you would have to be prepared to report ANYONE...even family...its not something you can say is wrong for some but ok for others.

 

[leonnib]

Yes, exactly! You've hit the nail on the head there!

The current benefits system is totally counter-intuitive, in that a person can be better off by claiming benefits and doing no work at all, than if they had a (fairly low-paid) job.

This means that it's the system that is actively encouraging people to stay on benefits instead of going out there and seeking work, because of this frankly stupid anomaly! I mean, who in their right mind, with at least half a brain cell, would come up with anything so daft? Well, obviously someone in the civil service or the government by the looks of it!

It would make a lot more sense if people on benefits could be a little better off by doing, say, a bit of part-time work - so they'd keep on getting the majority (or perhaps all) of their benefits up to a certain threshold, and then have the benefits gradually taper away above that. Rather than it being the "all or nothing" scenario that I believe it is at the moment.

So, given that this is the case, my view is that I would definitely not report someone who was doing a relatively small amount of work on top of their benefits, where the amount of work, if declared, would be less than the amount of benefits that they would lose. I do think that society would be a lot better off if people were allowed to earn a certain amount through work without losing their benefits. e.g. a single parent could have a part-time job during school hours that would not interfere with their ability to care for their child. And it would give people a much greater sense of purpose, and also open the doors for them to moving to a better paid job in the future, where they would be loads better off and no longer need benefits.

But artificially forcing people to stay on benefits because they'd be worse off if they worked just doesn't make any sense at all to me! In fact it would just lead to a greater drain on the taxpayer in the long run, because people would be much more likely to keep on claiming benefits long-term, instead of being able to get back into work...

i totally agreee with this. this is the problem. i had this issue when i had my son. benefit isnt enough really for a single person let alone single parent and a baby. i had to go back when he was 2 months and work practically full time as money was so tight. Also you lose money if you work under 16 hours. so it works out basically the same in the end.

if i had a choice i would have done 1/2 days to top up my income to enough to live on until he was about 6 months.

i think alot of the system needs to change. or it will always be a problem.

alot of people just use the system sign on every week and dont even try to get a job and others struggle.

so i can see why some i some circumstances do it as some may feel like they have no choice

 

[Ruth Mills]

i totally agreee with this. this is the problem. i had this issue when i had my son. benefit isnt enough really for a single person let alone single parent and a baby. i had to go back when he was 2 months and work practically full time as money was so tight. Also you lose money if you work under 16 hours. so it works out basically the same in the end.

if i had a choice i would have done 1/2 days to top up my income to enough to live on until he was about 6 months.

i think alot of the system needs to change. or it will always be a problem.

alot of people just use the system sign on every week and dont even try to get a job and others struggle.

Yes, the maths just doesn't make sense! I reckon a lot of these bureaucrats are so distanced from the real world that they just don't "get it". I guess if you've got a cushy public sector job (and pension) and work in an office away from the real people who are trying to survive on benefits, then you've got no real incentive to "get it" either...

It's a shame that someone doesn't shake-up the system properly though so that it's actually fair for people who want to work - rather than paring benefits back even more and blaming the banks!

 

[number1kitty]

Yes I reported someone. They had everything and then stole off people they knew and there neighbours. They were the people from hell, did all they could to peeve people off and they had 4 kids all under 3, (2 were twins) and her mum had 15 and a newborn. They were scum of society and I got peeved off with run ins with them. I dobbed them in to social services too for neglect and dont regret it and never will! (they left their children running around naked in the garden peeing on each other and they were always dirty!)

You also have all those on WFTC and being screwed by the government over something aimed to make our lives better. Instead of helping people its plunged hundreds of thousands of parents into debt. The reason ~ because its a TAX Credit not a benefit!!!

It does peeve me off when people do what they do and rub it in your face! However there are decent people out there that have had a crap run of luck and are just trying to keep their kids clothed and fed. I don't mean those that have had kids just for benefits. Especially at the minute there are families out there where hubbys been made redundant and the wife has a sideline but that earns very little and is cash in hand so they claim benefits until hubby who is honestly seeking work gets a job!

I train lots of people who may be on benefits and if they tell me, I would never ever tell anyone.

The government is at fault though really not these people. They should evaluate who actually has been dealt bad luck and needs a helping hand and make the benefit breeders do community service or join the army to earn there benefits!

 

[Ruth Mills]

Yes I reported someone. They had everything and then stole off people they knew and there neighbours. They were the people from hell, did all they could to peeve people off and they had 4 kids all under 3, (2 were twins) and her mum had 15 and a newborn. They were scum of society and I got peeved off with run ins with them. I dobbed them in to social services too for neglect and dont regret it and never will! (they left their children running around naked in the garden peeing on each other and they were always dirty!)

You also have all those on WFTC and being screwed by the government over something aimed to make our lives better. Instead of helping people its plunged hundreds of thousands of parents into debt. The reason ~ because its a TAX Credit not a benefit!!!

It does peeve me off when people do what they do and rub it in your face! However there are decent people out there that have had a crap run of luck and are just trying to keep their kids clothed and fed. I don't mean those that have had kids just for benefits. Especially at the minute there are families out there where hubbys been made redundant and the wife has a sideline but that earns very little and is cash in hand so they claim benefits until hubby who is honestly seeking work gets a job!

I train lots of people who may be on benefits and if they tell me, I would never ever tell anyone.

The government is at fault though really not these people. They should evaluate who actually has been dealt bad luck and needs a helping hand and make the benefit breeders do community service or join the army to earn there benefits!

I don't blame you for reporting people like that! Like I said before, anti-social behaviour would make me more likely to report someone...

 

[pink sparkles]

I always never know what to say when this topic comes up.

My best friend in the world had a little boy 18 months ago, she was kicked out by her mum for it and couldnt move in with her bfs family as they had a tiny house he didnt even have his own room. She went to the council who put her in a disgusting and dangerous hostel and she remained there until she had the baby, eventually they got a private rented flat together because she didnt feel safe there with the baby. They were ok for a couple of months but really struggled and ended up taking out credit cards just to buy shopping. they sold their car, furnished their house with freebies and could literally pay the bills each month and nothing else. Anyway they ran up so much debt they couldnt afford to live and they told the council bf had moved out so now she gets hb to cover some of her rent and council tax benefit.

Now before this happend to her I would say Id shop someone in for doing it - HOWEVER, the state is more willing to help her if she is another single mum. As a family unit they got no help whatsoever and couldnt survive. Even now they pay their bills and they pay off their debts and live a little better than before but they still go without and struggle. In their situation I would never report them.

TBH in my view, the government should give more benefits to families, they force people into these situations just to keep their heads above water. If they gave family units benefits for being exactly that, a family unit - then I think a lot of benefit fraud would stop becuase people would declare who actually lives and contributes to their household.

I always wonder though how do people know that they are comitting fraud in the first place? She always panics everytime the phone rings or someone knocks at the door and myself his parents and her parents are the only ones who know what theyre doing. How do people find out that their next door neighbour or whoever is not meant to have their partner there or that they shouldnt be working? Where I live I see people come and go everyday but I dont know their personal living situations to know if benefit fraud is taking place?

 

[Ruth Mills]

I always never know what to say when this topic comes up.

My best friend in the world had a little boy 18 months ago, she was kicked out by her mum for it and couldnt move in with her bfs family as they had a tiny house he didnt even have his own room. She went to the council who put her in a disgusting and dangerous hostel and she remained there until she had the baby, eventually they got a private rented flat together because she didnt feel safe there with the baby. They were ok for a couple of months but really struggled and ended up taking out credit cards just to buy shopping. they sold their car, furnished their house with freebies and could literally pay the bills each month and nothing else. Anyway they ran up so much debt they couldnt afford to live and they told the council bf had moved out so now she gets hb to cover some of her rent and council tax benefit.

Now before this happend to her I would say Id shop someone in for doing it - HOWEVER, the state is more willing to help her if she is another single mum. As a family unit they got no help whatsoever and couldnt survive. Even now they pay their bills and they pay off their debts and live a little better than before but they still go without and struggle. In their situation I would never report them.

TBH in my view, the government should give more benefits to families, they force people into these situations just to keep their heads above water. If they gave family units benefits for being exactly that, a family unit - then I think a lot of benefit fraud would stop becuase people would declare who actually lives and contributes to their household.

I always wonder though how do people know that they are comitting fraud in the first place? She always panics everytime the phone rings or someone knocks at the door and myself his parents and her parents are the only ones who know what theyre doing. How do people find out that their next door neighbour or whoever is not meant to have their partner there or that they shouldnt be working? Where I live I see people come and go everyday but I dont know their personal living situations to know if benefit fraud is taking place?

Again, a very good point about the benefits system being biased against families! If kids grow up better with two parents, then why does the benefits system penalise families with two parents like that???

Poverty isn't a crime, but the way the government runs things, it might as well be!