Business skills or common sense ?

[Essence Within]

with regard to the 'harsh' i meant this in regard to the fact a lot of people had said they dont say what they want to on here as they dont want to offend. I meant sometimes being 'direct/harsh as some would see it' is what is needed . I think if it was my post you were referring to -you misread what was meant I wasnt being negative.

 

[persianista]

I didn't take it that way, so don't worry! I only picked the word because it describes my rather blunt and brutal approach that so often gets me a nasty PM!
No offence taken at all. x

So is this a new year resolution to be more blunt and brutally honest with newby startups?
Are we gonna all start telling it like it is?
Or will is still be me saying "to be truthfull" in my posts?!!!

 

[angelina221]

I didn't take it that way, so don't worry! I only picked the word because it describes my rather blunt and brutal approach that so often gets me a nasty PM!
No offence taken at all. x

So is this a new year resolution to be more blunt and brutally honest with newby startups?
Are we gonna all start telling it like it is?
Or will is still be me saying "to be truthfull" in my posts?!!!

You know if i ask my friends what my best quality is, they always say i'm honest.
Now if i ask them what my worst quality is, they say i'm blunt!!
Helloooooo are they not the same!
People want you to be honest when it suits them but don't want you to be blunt cos it upsets them-you can't win!!

 

[persianista]

Very true Angelina.
I post threads on here because not all of us are expert at everything, myself included. But what do we say when someone posts asking for help because they want a salon, but have no money or clients???
The usual replies are something along the lines of a 500 quid grant from princes trust!!
To me it feels like I'm about to see a car crash.When I point out that peoples estimate of overheads is way too low, I got told to close my salons down (wtf) and go mobile!
So is it possible to be truthful, but stay positive? After all there will be a next generation of salon owners.
I think as well that the rash of new business startups is probably because jobs are few and far between at the moment, so people want an entry to the industry any way that they can.

 

[hippy-chick]

they used to do a business module as part of the IIHHT certificate, from memory it didn't teach you anything really.
Alls I remember is sitting looking at out of date trade magazines to price up a couch and towelling and some oil.
As I was going mobile I wasnt interested in anything else at the time.

 

[angelina221]

I had a beautician come to do a weeks works experience. Her dream was to open her own salon. One day i had a rep round from aston and fincher. He was trying to get me to buy stuff (obviously), and every time he said the price of something i would tell him where i could get it cheaper and for how much. I was reeling off the prices for stuff from capital, ellisons, arrow hair and beauty etc....
The work experience girl just sat there with her mouth open.
When the rep left she said 'How do you remember all that?'.
I replied 'Cos i need to'.
She learned a lot that week and didn't realise how much went into running a salon.
I think everyone should work in a salon as part of their training, not just to gain practical experience, but to learn about how a salon runs!

 

[westy28]

I am not digging at any threads in particular. I have been on this forum some time, and this discussion is a generalisation.
I too built up a substantial clientele before opening a salon, not opened and then thought EEK I need some clients! How do you write a business plan without any idea of what income you can generate????
After 15 years work, 10 of those as a manager, I felt equipped with enough knowledge to open a salon. So hindsight doesnt really apply.
As for "smug" I make no apologies for having been successful. I did it all with honesty and integrity.
As for "harsh" I take it as a compliment. Bear in mind I tone my true opinions down on here, I still regularly get nasty PM's from people who don't share my viewpoint!
It may or may not occur to people starting out that those of us held up as the "success storys" have a lot of opinions in common.

Ofcourse you should make no apologies for being successful!! how rediculous! but i also am entitled to express my opinions!(not intended to be nasty) dont we all want to be a success story? its fantasic that you had a clientele before opening, thing is everyone starts off with a different set of circumstances, some people have been in the industry for years, some people fancy a career change, i went to college to train in beauty after getting my two kids off to school, its what i always wanted to do but every year i applied the courses were booked. i also needed to something that i could fit in around them, so i trained and then decided to start up from home, so i dont have the advantage of salon experience ect ect ect which is an obvious advantage, but this is where i have decided to start.
So back to the initial question, i think some people have more of an advantage when starting their business, so some of us need some advice as stupid or obvious as it may sound! isnt what this forum is all about? shared industry experiences?

 

[persianista]

Of course it is shared experience, but only worthwhile if you wish to accept the opinions you ask for. (not you personally, I mean in general)
Did I have an advantage? Nope.
Did I start a business as soon as I qualified? Nope.
Did I do crap jobs at low (pitiful) wage to put myself through college? yup.
Salon experience is not "an advantage" its the way most of us earn't our wages for years on end in order to live. I was a single girl and had to earn a living to pay my mortgage, I didn't work for the fun of it! It took me fifteen years before I could afford my own salon. I really don't call that "an advantage"
Some of us do this for a living , we dont just play at "salons" This was and still is my only career, if you wish to see;
1 working 7 days a week
2 never having kids
3 being responsible for 4 properties
4 not having holidays
5 compromising my friends and social life
as having "an advantage" then really you need to open your eyes.

 

[westy28]

I totally agree that questions need to be asked, gosh I have asked some ridiculous things over the years and probably still do now.

Im not very good at putting things in writing but I guess one of my points is that a lot of the questions asked on here like best way to advertise, get clients etc, etc are all the sort of things that should ideally be asked BEFORE opening a salon or going mobile.

I know everyone has there own path to follow and maybe the reason I expect it to be common sense is because I choose to work in spas and do a business planning course before becoming self employed. In my mind I thought the sensible option would be to get some business skills before I started up, of course I have made hundreds of mistakes along the way and I had to learn those for myself.

I can't speak for anyone else but I guess I am a little bit scared to actually say on some of the new business posts that the beauty idustry is hard enough to crack anyway due to the huge amount of competiton and I personally think to succeed not only have you got to be an amazing therapist/technicin but you have got to have a cracking business head to even make it halfway in this world.

I think colleges should add a business module into the course for sure :biggrin:

Again I truly don't mean any offence to anyone, I was just asking if anyone else finds it difficult to reply to some questions about new businesses.

well I did ask all those questions before starting up, i done a business course, thought i had everything pretty well planned out, but things have been pretty slow and havent went quite according to the business plan.
As a new business starting out, i dont i anyway think you should hold back in sharing any of your industry experiences for fear of coming accross too harsh, i personally totally appreciate any feedback from pros who have been there (hence the silly questions) i dont doubt that i will make hundreds of mistakes along the way, but hope to learn from fellow geeks and try and avoid a few (hence the silly questions again).

 

[crazysaz]

in m town 3 have opened up in the past fortnight, i kid you not! 1 I interviewed - totally pants. Done the worse acrylic nail ever, then told me she was really busy at home esp with nail extensions. How mch for a full set, Iasked? Her reply - £10 she says. I said you realise your not making any money? I know she giggles
Next one has worked for me for 6 months, she hadnt any clients coming back and after another complaint about her tan I decided she had to go. Next day she rings to say shes opening a salon (it had obviously been in the pipeline). I sat and paid her so I could train her - in things she has certificates from the tech to say she can do. After 6 months she still cant do a tan - and shes opening a salon??
I think the techs pass absolutely any one these days. I interviewed a girl who couldnt even do a colour polish. Half are doing beauty at home for buttons, cash in hand.

 

[westy28]

Of course it is shared experience, but only worthwhile if you wish to accept the opinions you ask for. (not you personally, I mean in general)
Did I have an advantage? Nope.
Did I start a business as soon as I qualified? Nope.
Did I do crap jobs at low (pitiful) wage to put myself through college? yup.
Salon experience is not "an advantage" its the way most of us earn't our wages for years on end in order to live. I was a single girl and had to earn a living to pay my mortgage, I didn't work for the fun of it! It took me fifteen years before I could afford my own salon. I really don't call that "an advantage"
Some of us do this for a living , we dont just play at "salons" This was and still is my only career, if you wish to see;
1 working 7 days a week
2 never having kids
3 being responsible for 4 properties
4 not having holidays
5 compromising my friends and social life
as having "an advantage" then really you need to open your eyes.

You are totally misunderstanding my point and the inital point!!!! nobody is disputing that you have and continue to work hard!!! brilliant, go you!! i still have to go to work and earn living to support my kids and pay my morgtage as does my husband whilst "playing" salons as you so kindly put it , i also had to work in pittyful jobs to get through college before the kids and husband came along, but chose the wrong career path(yawn). I am totally not gettin your point! All im saying is (with reference to the inital point ) i think sometimes ya need to ask some daft questions if you want to know the answers!!!! and you have the answers if you have the experience, i obviously lack in common sence and thats it. im not attacking anyone its simply my opinion.

 

[westy28]

but can i just add maybe a holiday would do you good love, you seem really uptight.

 

[angelina221]

but can i just add maybe a holiday would do you good love, you seem really uptight.

Not uptight, just a realist. It's good to listen to people that have lots of experience and are trying to help.
I think your reply was a little harsh. Persianista was only trying to help.
I think that was the point of the thread-people asking questions and not liking the reply!!

 

[nixnewcastle]

I think its only with hindsight that you can judge!!! , however without the experience and knowlage you gain throughout the process of setting up and eventually being an established business how on earth are you supposed to know how long it takes to get clients, are you doing everything you can to try and get clients, is there anything you could do better ect unless you ask! the questions asked may seem rediculous and common sence to the established business woman but think back to when you started out was everything so obvious then?
I posted a thread asking geeks for advice as i have just started a business, (thanks to all those who took the time to give good advice) i cant help but think this post may be aimed at my thread! perhaps some of my questions seemed obvious to some, but i dont have all the answers, nor am i expecting to be fully booked within a couple of months!!! or expecting an easy ride, i am expecting alot of determination, and hard graft though and look forward to it one day paying off however, until then it is a learning process, for that matter i think it always will be!!, i dont think ANYONE can afford to take anything for granted or be too smug in business....

I set up in June 2008 and so I myself am still classed as a new business but I have seen some truly horrendous posts on here which I thought if you need to ask that question you should be reconsidering if you are ready to open a business or not. I personally haven't read the post you are refering to Westy so that is not aimed at you as i dont know if the buseiness question was horrendous or not. I think alot of the problem is that people who are setting up a business aren't willing to do the research and all the hard work like many on this thread have already mentioned.

The successful salon owners on here who i admire and look up to and have a very good reputation have some amazing advice to give but people on here get offended way to easily and dont listen. Everyone is on here to help each other out and exchange advice and stories and i think the ones that.

I went straight into beauty therapy straight from school at 16 (im now 25)
I have worked for various make up counters, 5 star spas, salons and managed a few places also. I went to college for 2 years full time initially to get my BTEC Beauty therapy certificate. I then went back for a year part time to do 2 make up artistry qualifications on top of the basic make up i did in my BTEC and then went back to do a year of aromatherapy. I am trained in ESPA, Eve Taylor, Creative, Jessica, Comfort Zone, Dermalogica and various others.

Even with all of this I know how hard setting up a business is and still listen to what others have to say and take on board their advice.

Smug no! Very qualified and experienced and confident in what we do because of it YES!

 

[Murnettie]

but can i just add maybe a holiday would do you good love, you seem really uptight.

I dont really think this was called for. At the end of the day, we dont all have to agree with eachother on everything, but there is no need to get personal! If you dont believe what has been said applies to you then, just take from it what you think can help you. These people have a lot of experience and know what they are talking about and are constantly sharing it all with all of us so even if i dont like what is said all the time on the forums i listen to it anyway even if i think to myself (well that doesnt apply to me).

 

[persianista]

Anyone who thinks that business sucess is down to "advantages" in life or "luck" is setting themselves up for failure I think. In my case I put success down to lots of groundwork, lots of practise and a refusal to give up when difficulties presented.
If you would rather trade cheap shots and insults then fine. You cannot take away what I acheived.
Westie, a room in your house with a couch in and no clients is not a salon. It is simply a room with a couch in. I have 3 salons, big 'uns, and I really don't need to take this rubbish from a wannabee.
I think this is a prime example of why there is sometimes no point in replying to "business minded" people who want a salon without doing the work beforehand. They have no clue as to how it works, and prefer to slate those of us that have actually done it. It's easier than acting on the advice.

 

[bombini]

but can i just add maybe a holiday would do you good love, you seem really uptight.

This is exactly the sort of response I was hoping to avoid ! :Scared:

My worry is that by giving advice it will come across to the original poster as harsh and then it starts getting personal and people get upset. So this is the dilema we are in, we want to give advice but want to tell it how it is yet we cause offence if we do..........

I don't want thread to get closed so can we forget the personal comments :hug:

 

[kimi1101]

poor bombini, just trying to protect het thread

i agree with people who say its the courses that lead some people to believe they will be millionaires in a week...and its a shame.

The last thing anyone would want is to see someones business go down the chute but i do agree, sometimes a bit more thought and preparation should go into it.

Also hope I've not been on of the stupid posters...I'm always posting questions and problems he he!! i guess we are lucky to have salon geek.

Persianista helped me yyesterday, and gave me an honest answer, which was great. now to applt the advice.......

In the words of the film Mean Girls "I want to bake a cake out of rainbows and smiles and we could all eat it and be happy"

:Love::Love::Love::Love::Love::Love:

 

[persianista]

I don't really think there is such a thing as a stupid question. Just a daft response to an answer. To a nail tech like Geeg I probably ask stupid questions. I am not a nail geek and rely at times on my research on here.
I don't mind answering any questions at all regarding hair, beauty and business. Sadly I have never found the shortcut way to a clientele, nor the magic advertising medium that turns you into Nicky Clarke overnight! There is no quick way to being fully booked AND making a profit.
I hope that at times I have helped geeks avoid expensive mistakes. What none of us can do is magic a business out of thin air.

 

[westy28]

Anyone who thinks that business sucess is down to "advantages" in life or "luck" is setting themselves up for failure I think. In my case I put success down to lots of groundwork, lots of practise and a refusal to give up when difficulties presented.
If you would rather trade cheap shots and insults then fine. You cannot take away what I acheived.
Westie, a room in your house with a couch in and no clients is not a salon. It is simply a room with a couch in. I have 3 salons, big 'uns, and I really don't need to take this rubbish from a wannabee.
I think this is a prime example of why there is sometimes no point in replying to "business minded" people who want a salon without doing the work beforehand. They have no clue as to how it works, and prefer to slate those of us that have actually done it. It's easier than acting on the advice.

I have had clients!!! just not as many as i would like so are you saying there is no potential to build a clientele?, i feel all you have done is attack my posts, i said it was fantastic that you are successful!!! and if you read my posts you would see im very open to advice thats why i came on here, so what is your advice? tell me how exactlly does it work? are you saying if you have went back to college as a mature student and have decided to set up from home and not assuming to become a millionare overnight) have done business research, have experience running somone elses business, and are doing everything you think you can to get clients, that you are never going to get anywhere there is no possibility of sucess, and are setting yourself up for failure? forgive me if im missing something but why would someone in that possition be any less likley to succeed? ,i am genuinley interested in your opinion.