buying CND at the shows

[colorflair]

I think I am probably going out a limb here when I say that I think you may be over re-acting here a little bit Debbie - because there are a lot of nail artist out there that haven't trained with Creative and are dam fine technicians - who may not be able to take a conversion course yet, or they may be pretty happy with the product they use, but when attending a show have the chance to "try" out other products with good reputations - I really can't see them all rushing to the creative stand to buy the biggest pot they can. Also you may have a creative nail technicain who can't be bothered to carry on training, just because they have had good training and a good educator to start with doesn't mean they will carry on "training" or are gifted at what they do, and are a better tech than someone who has a real flair for the art etc... and using a different product.

Ok you want to know that you are investing your hard earned money into a reputable company, and Creative are! they do follow their rules the best they can, give first rate training top class product! but come on give them a break!!!!! at the end of the day you are investing in yourself, when clients come to you they want to leave with GREAT nails and a briliant service half the time they don't even know what product you are using!!!
You should be worried about the standard of nails you are producing and not worried about every Tom, Dick or Harry!!! or hiding behind a name! Like Louise said spot on - your customers are going to keep coming back to you regardless of what another technician is using!!!!

 

[Sassy Hassy]

Hi Mamma, just picking up on your point about EBay. The thing about buying direct from the supplier means that you know that it's Creative products in a Creative package that comes with the back up support from a big Company. When you buy on EBay who knows what could be in your pot of powder, and no back up support should it be faulty.

That said, I agree with you that it does make a mockery of ANY manufacturer insisting you have their training before buying the product, but we don't live in a perfect world. Yes it may affect the Brand name and their reputation, but it won't affect mine!

 

[Jaydee]

I think they are loyal to us, they are continually bringing out new lines that will make our jobs easier, give us the best education.....I don't know if you've been to a show but the stand gets absolutley packed that you just cant move and the guys and girls work their butts off to keep the shelves stocked and the customer care that goes into the shows is above and beyond the call of duty. Even if ID Cards were introduced and a person got to a till and they didn't have their card with them and told they couldn't purchase the products.....you would have some deranged woman screaming their t**s off cos they missed out on the deals etc. Someone in authority would then have to come and diffuse the situation which would hold everybody else up who has been waiting in the queue and I think their days are hard enough without having to deal with this kind of thing happening.

Hi David and thanks for yur eply, i just think loyalty works both ways. If we are investing time and money in a compnay then so should they in us.

 

[Northern Nails]

I think I am probably going out a limb here when I say that I think you may be over re-acting here a little bit Debbie - because there are a lot of nail artist out there that haven't trained with Creative and are dam fine technicians - who may not be able to take a conversion course yet, or they may be pretty happy with the product they use, but when attending a show have the chance to "try" out other products with good reputations
No your not going out on a limb and i do appreciate your views, and of course i agree there are some damm good nail technicians not necesserely Creative trained who i for one lookup to admire. But if people want to try a product then let them do that. That is how i started using Creative i bought the 'Try me Kit' from Gmex. But there ARE alot of people who abuse this and i for one don't think this is fair on those who have bothered to stick with Crative and there training.

I for one wouldn't go anywhere else as it is in my opinion second to none.

But this aside, they souldn't be selling to others only the 'Try me Kits'

- I really can't see them all rushing to the creative stand to buy the biggest pot they can. Also you may have a creative nail technicain who can't be bothered to carry on training, just because they have had good training and a good educator to start with doesn't mean they will carry on "training" or are gifted at what they do, and are a better tech than someone who has a real flair for the art etc... and using a different product.

Ok you want to know that you are investing your hard earned money into a reputable company, and Creative are!
Yes they are reputable for producing outstanding nail technicians who have the privalidge of using a top of the range exclusive product.

they do follow their rules the best they can, give first rate training top class product! but come on give them a break!!!!! at the end of the day you are investing in yourself, when clients come to you they want to leave with GREAT nails and a briliant service half the time they don't even know what product you are using!!!
My clients often ask what i am using and i have great pride in telling them and about the company and the trained nail technicians who have to be at standard to use it.

You should be worried about the standard of nails you are producing and not worried about every Tom, Dick or Harry!!! or hiding behind a name! Like Louise said spot on - your customers are going to keep coming back to you regardless of what another technician is using!!!!

I know this is an exageration but look at the NVQ and the differnt levels of achiement there!!...Creative set there standards high and by offing this to the public or nail technicians who may have had or not had there training, could be lowering this standard. I hope you understand my point of veiw, it sounds over the top, it,s just that like i said loyalty should work both ways. :hug:

 

[Jane]

I don't think that the few that filter through ( and they are in the minority you only have to listen to the conversations whilst in the queue - hey it passes the time!) are worth worrying about.
You have something that they don't and never will have - life long support.

 

[Tracey Park]

As someone has already pointed out earlier, this does come up every time a trade show comes along. however no amount of moaning about it is goint to make any difference. we should just get on with it. all manufactuers and i hope i am right in saying this know what happens each time but are in some ways unable to do anything about it. it is a trade show purley for professionals, yes you can take anyone with you even the nail tech from your local nss if you like.

surley and i hope i am right when i say this that the problem is not with the suppliers it is with the organizers of the events. i to have tickets for the show and i am a professional. but how do they know i am, have they seen my certificates to proove this. no they havent. i filled in a application form like anyone else and i could of lied about my status. the problem is with these people not the suppliers. as far as selling to professionals and taking tom, dick or harry . the professional could have a coded entrance badge that can be scanned at the tills or shown to operator. a non professional could have a different code or colour. this could help.

it makes me sad to think that as professionals we all slate the suppliers, when in my opinion they do there best to bring us the best products and tranining and offer them to professionals only. we should be aiming our anger / opinions to the organizers. that is where the changes for these shows will come not the suppliers.

i too did feel the same about all of these issues and also about the amount of professional stock being sold on ebay. as individuals we are unable to make a difference, united it could happen, we just need to aim it in the right direction. supperliers and i know that there are many high up people on this site that i hope will agree with me here are behind you 100%, look whats happening on ebay , why do we have geekbay and geekmart here - please think about that. if any company felt this strong about it then they would be trying to do something about it and i know for sure that one is. once one does it the others will all follow suit.

change takes time and there will always be the little grey market selling possibly 'genuine' professional stock

i would like to say that these are my views and im not aiming anything i have said at anybody. im just one nail tech that believes in professionalism and wants to make a difference

cant wait to see you all at earls court. the only geeks ive ever met are sabinbaD, Creative geek and GMG.

cant wait to see more !!!!

p.s. sorry if the spelling is rubbish, mind overload today lol

 

[Northern Nails]

hi Tracey,


but don't yu think it is hypacritical of a company who insists on technicians having THEIR training before being able to purchase products and then selling their products as much or as little to anyone at the shows.

I am not knocking their products, training or technology which i personally think is first rate. The point i am trying to make is the attitude seems to change when it is time for the shows....

I for one go to these shows and do stock up and if i.d. cards were issued i'd make damm sure i took mine and if i did forget tough. You go to a cash and carry and if you don't ahve yur card you carn't buy, so what is the difference.

 

[Kim Lawless]

hi Tracey,


You go to a cash and carry and if you don't ahve yur card you carn't buy, so what is the difference.

Yeah but if you're a chancer like me, I'd just borrow a mates card. There's always round it so where do you draw the line Mamma?

 

[Northern Nails]

Yes i understand what your saying Kimmi, but then it is the fault of the technician who is giving yu the card. I for one wouldn't give my card to anyone other than a creative techncian, i intend to work damm hard at my work and wouldn't let anyone other than a Creative tech but these products.


by introducing these at least then the manufacturers would be doing all they could to stop this.

It just gets my goat that we do the training and buy the product and then at the shows it is available to all and sundry.

 

[nicjill]

Admittedly it is annoying that people can buy Creative products this way without their training (& I know several teks & even a few completely untrained people who have done this) BUT it would be very difficult, time consuming & costly to implement ID cards or similar. If people want to buy Creative products without the training it isn't right, but it's their choice. They are the ones missing out as they haven't been trained with that product so are more likely to have problems with it.

Ok, this reflects badly on the Creative name but it also reflects badly on the nail tek. I find that clients only take notice of the brand name if they have had it before & love it. In this case, the client already knows how good the brand is so will realise that it is the tek, not the product to blame for a bad set of enhancements. If they have never had enhancements before, chances are they won't realise that there are different brands out there (like 99% of my 'newbie' clients) & blame the tek anyway!

My point is, if they haven't trained with a brand, they won't get the most out of it so it makes buying without training pointless. As for the ones with no training at all, they can't work on others anyway (legally at least) as they are untrained & can't get insurance. These people tend to buy the stuff just to do their own nails & could always go to their local salon wholesalers or even Argos or Ebay to buy products anyway. It should be up to the professionals who take these people along to make sure that no professional products fall into untrained hands. I know I would never let anyone who came with me buy professional products unless they were trained too.

Don't wory too much about it, most of us are trained professionals & are willing to do extra training in order to be as good as we can.

Just a thought, perhaps when we register with Professional Beauty, etc. we should be asked for a certificate number or something to prove that we are trained? When I registered online for my Professional Beauty tickets, all I had to do was type in my name, address & job title. I know we get different coloured badges to tell people what we do but there is no check on this. Perhaps this would be a good time to check as it could be checked (at least with the larger companies) online, way in advance of the actual show.

Hey ho, on a more cheerful note, see you all in manchester in october!

 

[Tracey Park]

i understand what you are saying and you will find that it is the same for all the suppliers there.

my local aston and fincher and sallys etc i have a card for to purchase. no card no sale. its exactly the same as well with EVERY supplier that supplys PROFESSIONAL PRODUCTS for use by PROFESSIONALS only.

i did find it frustrating but no longer as i know that the products that i but are professional products and are 200% backed by that supplier. if i have a problem they will sort it out for me and go that extra mile to make me happy.

joe bloggs that stocks up at the show, will not get that supplier support. if they have a problem it will not get sorted. if for some reason there is a accident/application error (hope you know what i mean) the supplier will not back that person up. there is so much stock on ebay that if you really really want the stuff and cant be bothered to train with your preferred supplier for whatever reason you can get it. yes training is expensive but at the end of the day its what outways you from the others. it puts you in the forfront. it makes you proud of your acheivements. stop worrying about others as they are not in your league you are above them.

yes any qualified nail tech and my tutor made me laugh when she told me this "its the technician not the product that makes a good technicain" sorry love i thought its both they need each other. can purchase and use these products but unless they are trained or have done a conversion/induction and if the latter its approx 2-3 sets of nails in cost for this training and whats that when you get ~1 training and a certificate. they will not be on the system and will never be able to purchase from the supplier direct. they will not have supplier support when something goes wrong - they will be on their own

yes frustrating i know and i truly know how you feel, but my state of mind however small it is lol, blames the organizers of these events and also auction sites which we all know . this is where all our anger should be aimed.

maybe its worth seeing if scratch or even PN would do an article on this because it is ongoing and its just not the one supplier on here that gets most of the flack it is others and i feel its time to stand up and be counted for what we believe in. what do you say girls and boys (whoopsn nearly forgot your guys - how could i do that !!!!)

are you with me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[geeg]

Gotta say Debbie, you are way over reacting and imagining the situation to be way more than it in fact is.

Anyone at all can buy a try me kit from cnd if they are at a show. Try me kits have brought more people to cnd classes than almost anything because the product handles so differently and is so easy to use compared to many others. So cnd has always been available to try to non cnd techs.

If you had never tried a product before would you go and spend a bundle on it? NO and neither do other people. There may be the odd exception slips through, but cnd try their hardest in a situation that is difficult. Remember we are only talking about liquid and powder, Brisa and Fabric ... these are the only products that are restricted ... anyone at all can buy anything else now can't they if they are trained? So please do not insinuate that cnd are hypocritical. Every effort is made to police the situation at shows as Mrs geek made very clear earlier.

You are re incorrect about the ID numbers. GMG has thought about a system many times but we have many different sub distributors with their own customers who have their own customer numbers which are different from head office customers and it is a logistical nightmare without the headoffice holding every single customer record of every sub distributor. They know their business and how it works very well, and for you to say blithely what can and cannot be done 'easily' without knowing the facts is misleading and in fact incorrect as well as naive.

If someone wants something badly enough they will get it whatever cnd do and we all know this. There are even cnd technicians who sell to other technicians I'm sure. At least cnd make the effort even at shows which is more than most do. They do their absolute best so credit where credit is due.

 

[Tracey Park]

Yeah but if you're a chancer like me, I'd just borrow a mates card. There's always round it so where do you draw the line Mamma?

kimmy you are a girl after my own heart i would also do this lol

what are we like lol

 

[colorflair]

Quote"That is how i started using Creative i bought the 'Try me Kit' from Gmex. But there ARE alot of people who abuse this and i for one don't think this is fair on those who have bothered to stick with Crative and there training."Quote


So if Creative did as you wished!! you would never have had the chance to sample their range and come to the conclusion that they were the Company you wanted to do your training with and use their products - not very fair now you have got what you want is it. I do understand where you are coming from but I honestly think you are blowing it out of proportion !!

 

[Tracey Park]

Please Please Please Can We Give Cnd A Break Here They Are Not The Only Ones There Are Other Suppliers That Do It As Well

Sorry For Having To Say This But Its Getting To Me A Bit Now !!!!

We All Have Our Opinions I Know But All Exhibitors Do This

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

I know where you are coming from but,
The only product you cannot by from CND unless you are trained is the L&P and this is just a small part on their huge stand.......
Enamels, Fabric#, Brisa and lots of other goodies can be ordered with a secondary account from Designer Nails and OSNS.....

So ok Joe public can get into these trade shows and how do they get in usually with a Nail Tech friend......
So how would you police this at a trade show that has usual thousands of people coming through the door.....
You have to have ID cards for secondary accounts and main accounts, then they will need checking and verifying. What about the Technicians that have just passed their L&P Course and are still in the processing system..will they miss out????...you would need extra resources and they all cost money.... so then where does the money come from ???? Someone has to pay the wages for the extra staff ???? this would mean trade shows for CND would cost more money..... the stands cost a huge amount, the staff wants wages, the cards need printing, then whats to stop anyone borrowing that card ????.....Ok so you could have Photo ID, that cost even more money......and this would eventually have to be reflected in product costs.... Because someone has to pay the piper to play at the wedding ......

How many are buying the L&P and then have to faff about because they just don't get the ratio or they simply don't get the results a trained CND Technician gets........How many are actually wasting time buying the L&P professional kits and then miss out on the free induction course..... their loss I think.......

I know this is an exaggeration but look at the NVQ and the different levels of achievement there!!...Creative set there standards high and by offing this to the public or nail technicians who may have had or not had there training, could be lowering this standard. I hope you understand my point of view, it sounds over the top, it,s just that like i said loyalty should work both ways. :hug:

These are Technicians that obviously don't care much for the standard of this industry.....or think they just wont cut it when it comes to more in depth education, they think a 2 day course is the only education they will ever need..because hey they are using CND LOL...and eventually this will show in their work and then the lack of clients, because clients are becoming far more educated about the difference between a Nail Technician and a fab well educated Nail Technician.....
JMHO

 

[scattyfox]

I think Debbie was just pointing out the downfalls and that not everyone is honest but as lots of people commented but they do not know how to use it so they hopefully normally end up doing some sort of training course with creative because lets face it we do big it up don't we , i know thats how i got here.

I think some valid points have been made but the feasability has also been answered there will never be a way that satisifies everyone , this has been an intresting thread and as always with good threads gets the blood flowing.


We realise that probably ebay is our biggest problem and if at the show and you notice someone buying loads of stock they shouldnt be then contact the geek police and maybe clock their name on their credit card or something and tell designer nails when you get home.

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