Fresh Monomer Every Time?

[Bev Rose]

I never use pumps .. more odour more evaporation and they get yucky!! Havent used one since 1985 .. since then only dappen dishes and clean liquid.
I try to dispense what I need for one client at a time but of course if there is any leftover I just add fresh to it and so on until the end of the day when the challenge is to use it all up!! lol You can get quite good at it so there is next to nil wasteage.

This is what I do too.
I use the CND Dog Bowl and I have a little metal lid from a glass dappen dish that fits it perfectly between clients.

 

[yeahyeah]

Oh i am glad you have posted about this type of pump and to know you dont recommend it gigi, after reading about it above it sounded really good so i did try and search to find out more about this pump and was considering buying one myself...i won't won't be bothering now.

I ordered my NSI pump over two years ago, still using the same one and it looks brand new, definitely not yucky i clean it regularly along with everything else on/in my table just as you would a dappen dish. i also notice MUCH less odor when using it because the amount of monomer thats exposed at any given time is considerably less than would be if it were sitting in an open container. I also dont notice any evaporation, the stainless steel lid snaps closed and the bottle goes in a drawer at the end of the day. please dont refuse a great product becuase of one opinion, find out what works for you!

 

[geeg]

The thing with using a pump (and they have been around for years and years) for monomer is that evaporation does take place, whether one is aware of it or not. Air in the pump equals air into which molecules can evaporate (just as in polish bottles etc). As soon as any evaporation occurs, the balance of the molecules in the monomer changes and therefore the monomer changes and the best results will not be achieved. Personally I believe that every client is entitled to have the best quality of everything and not monomer that has been in a pump for weeks and re-topped up etc .. You don't know where you are with it.

Best to use your small amounts, of fresh monomer (of course in a small dappen dish with a cover as naturally you would never leave the dish sitting open without a cover). Clean out at the end of the day if you are working all day or between clients if there is a significant time gap. Your dappen dish will be open a maximun of what? 10 minutes? No time for meaningful changes to occur and the surface area of the dappen dish is much smaller so there is less odour than pumps create with their larger surface area. Now this is what Doug Schoon recommends .. of course each to their own and if I recommend black some recommend white, but there are reasons why I make the recommendations I do and in this case it makes good intelligent sound chemical sense and it also guarantees the best quality for your clients. With monomer that is very important.

With other less significant liquids I use pumps .. Scrub Fresh, remover, Acetone etc. :hug:

 

[VHunter]

Thanks for all the input ladies

Yup, think I need to change my Dappen. It's the corked one for Ez Flow... I think perhaps I overfill it? I do use a pipette..
I'll look at getting the doggie bowl if I can find it.

THANKS!

 

[ValencianNails]

please dont refuse a great product becuase of one opinion, find out what works for you!

It isn't only one person's opinion though is it?

I don't use a pump and I wouldn't because my dappen dish with the pipette method works perfectly for me AND it's cost effective!

 

[VHunter]

One fact remains, that is irrefutable as it's proven to be true by SCIENCE and that has NOTHING to do with opinion.

The monomer WILL and DOES evaporate from the pump.

 

[Annebet]

Hi yes I agree dappen dish with lid and pippette and pump bottle for scrubfresh

 

[yeahyeah]

I stand by the pump, it works great. My clients dont have any problems with their enhancements and I do not think they are not getting the best service possible because I use a pump for monomer. The only bit of monomer that is exposed is the bit that's pumped out at any given time. The rest is in the closed glass container. I do not see how this is any different than opening your container to pipe out your monomer several times a day. although its not my first choice for enhancement products, I was licensed at, and also teach a business course at a CND endorsed cosmetology school and we recommend the pumps to the students based on referrals and recommendations from our CND education ambassadors. Our regulations for safety and sanitation are extremely strict and they are governed by a state cosmetology board, the united states department of labor, and state departments of sanitation and safety, so we have found pumps to be a very effective way of managing our product usage and I dont believe they would be so widely used and recommended if they hindered the performance of the product in any measurable amount.

 

[yeahyeah]

I would just like to add that monomer will and does evaporate from any container, including (and probably most quickly) from a regular open face happen dish. The fact that it is filled with a smaller amount does not mean a lesser percent of the product can evaporate. a closed container with a lid that screws and snaps shut (much like the factory packaging) will protect against evaporation. Evaporation in no way changes the chemical composition of a substance. If evaporation occurs within an enclosed container, no product is technically lost, the evaporated product condensates.

 

[The Geek]

I am fairly sure you wouldn't have problems with evaporation with pumps (otherwise you would have problems with leaking). The problem with pumps in the past has been that when you pumped, they would allow a small amount of contamination back into the belly of the pump, slowly polymerising the contents. I am not sure if this is still the case or not though. As its been yonks since I have seen someone using pumps.

 

[mizzy_dizzy]

I would just like to add that monomer will and does evaporate from any container, including (and probably most quickly) from a regular open face happen dish. The fact that it is filled with a smaller amount does not mean a lesser percent of the product can evaporate. a closed container with a lid that screws and snaps shut (much like the factory packaging) will protect against evaporation. Evaporation in no way changes the chemical composition of a substance. If evaporation occurs within an enclosed container, no product is technically lost, the evaporated product condensates.

Very true ,
But dosen't a pump take the monomer from the bottom of the bottle ? I mean we have all had a cocktail with a straw and had all the alcohol in the first sip right?
If the monomer has separated or like you said condensation in the bottle wouldn't a pump be getting out the most concentrate of the liquid? Meaning when you get to the bottom you would be using a weaker solution?
I'm not going against you just asking a question

 

[The Geek]

Keeping something in a pump is no different to keeping something in a bottle as long as the pump doesn't leak or allow contaminants back into the bottle.

 

[geeg]

Keeping something in a pump is no different to keeping something in a bottle as long as the pump doesn't leak or allow contaminants back into the bottle.

Yes, as long as!! .... well where does the monomer go from the pump when it disappears between pumps??? Back into the bottle. Why has DS always advised that it is better to use fresh monomer in small amounts?? I prefer to do as the experts advise me, thanks.

 

[The Geek]

mmmok. I guess it magics itself away.

Let me repeat: keeping something in a pump is no different than keeping something in a bottle as long as the pump doen't leak or allow contaminants back into the bottle.

 

[VHunter]

Evaporation in no way changes the chemical composition of a substance. If evaporation occurs within an enclosed container, no product is technically lost, the evaporated product condensates.

I strongly disagree! ! ! !
While I'm no chemist and it's certainly not my strong suit, I do have some common sense.
If certain ingredients 'evaporate' from the liquid, and into the air; then they are no longer in the liquid OR their quantity within the liquid is at least reduced.
It's the LIQUID that you use and soak up with your brush, to mix your beads, NOT THE AIR. I don't see anyone waving their brushes in the air.

So, if the chemical composition is changed by the evaporation such that it contains LESS of a certain ingredient THEN it's not the composition intended by the manufacturer for use. So therefor, it's not at it's "best" so to speak.

I'm not saying one way or the other is best.... BUT let's have some common sense.

web definition:
Evaporation

The process by which any substance is converted from a liquid state into, and carried off in, vapor; as, the evaporation of water, of ether, of camphor.


Did you see the word CONVERTED?
Converted means:
changed in form or function etc
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/converted
convert - change from one system to another or to a new plan or policy; "We converted from 220 to 110 Volt"
convert - change the nature, purpose, or function of something; "convert lead into gold"; "convert hotels into jails"; "convert slaves to laborers"
convert - change: exchange or replace with another, usually of the same kind or category; "Could you convert my dollars into pounds?"; "He changed his name"; "convert centimeters into inches"; "convert holdings into shares"
convert - cause to adopt a new or different faith; "The missionaries converted the Indian population"
convert - score an extra point or points after touchdown by kicking the ball through the uprights or advancing the ball into the end zone; "Smith converted and his team won"
SO IF SOMETHING EVAPORATES, it is CHANGED.

 

[mum]

I mostly agree Victoria

Not all of a chemical compound is as volatile as all of its parts. It is perfectly possible that the volatile part will evaporate (even a closed container) leaving a more concentrated version of the original with some of the formula missing.

What about a saline solution? Water isn't especially volatile but it will evaporate and the salt will become more concentrated until there is just salt left.

What happens to nail polish that is half full? Without opening it will still thicken as the solvents evaporate into the air space. Shaking it will help but it will never return to its original form that was before the cap was closed

 

[NoLimitNails]

Mum was quicker than me, that was what I was trying to explain...

At first I was a little unsure if evaporation would cause trouble or not, because of the following.

If the monomer evaporates in "whole molecules" then nothing would be changed. Water that evaporates will as soon as cooled down, still be water.

What I don't know is whether monomer is just a bunch of monomer molecules, I believe (and happy to be corrected here) that it consists of a multiple number of different things (therefore different molecules) this could mean that the monomer could change. I base this on the fact that every single liquid has different boiling temperatures (boiling as in starting to evaporate, not nessecarily hot) so the different molecules would all evaporate at different times. So some of the molecules with a low boiling temperature would evaporate faster, and eventhough they will not leave the bottle, they will still have escaped from the monomer, laving this changed.

What is essential to me is, can the monomer evaporate from the pump even when you not use it?? If this is the case I would think that it could leave the monomer change, whether it has an effect if you fill it up often, I don't know.

Otherwise I think the trouble would be the fact some of the posts mention, that contaminated monomer would be sucked back into the pump. When I use my scrubfresh pump and leave a bit on the top, it does suck it back in. So only based on this last bit I wouldn't use a pump, as I'm not always picking up in the right ratio, so I tend to pollute my monomer, even if it's just a little bit, that will change the monomer.

Sorry for the long post, didn't know how to explain myself in a shorter way

 

[mum]

If the seal on a pump was as airtight as a screw cap then there is no reason that there should be a problem if all excess was wiped off the 'dish' before every pump. I don't think that is the case. The mechanism isn't that good (hence the recommendation by DS and the comment by TG)

With regard to Scrubfresh for example, this isn't so critical as it isn't part of a 'system'. The cotton pad soaks it all up anyway. If a bit goes back in it won't create a 'system breakdown'

Coo, all a bit heavy for a Sunday evening

 

[mizzy_dizzy]

I love reading about the chemistry side to nail products, it really fascinates me I wish it was more a part of the classes, I would love to know more WHY , as well as HOW ,

Doug Schoon Has a good bit about this when he talks about inhibitors that are added to the monomer to prolong the shelf life and stop the liquid from gelling. PG137


It is the answer to the question "dose monomer go off" and ive seen that question here soooo many times, it helps to sort of explaine this to.... Sort of lol

 

[Envy]

Doug Schoon Has a good bit about this when he talks about inhibitors that are added to the monomer to prolong the shelf life and stop the liquid from gelling. PG137

Spot on research

Monomer does indeed contaminate and 'go off' easily

I've seen with my own eyes the result of a shipment left to sit on the dock in the sun... the entire batch had turned into a solid 'jelly' in the bottles...

Monomers are a very energetic molecule, they are so charged that they actually are constantly moving in the container and 'push away' from each other - the moment a reaction starts they grab ahold of each other one by one forming into millions of molecules in a long chain (solid)

In the container the inhibitors keep them from being able to start grabbing each other. These inhibitors only work for an average of 18 months (in a sealed container)

Opening the bottle and exposing oxygen will start to degrade them and shorten their protective nature.

Any storage container once opened will lead to the eventual breakdown and partial polymerisation and loss of energy from the molecule.

Never should old monomer be added to fresh monomer, it will already have an altered structure and will instantly weaken the fresh product... This is why Doug recommends only ever dispensing a small amount at a time from a small (eg 4 oz) container. With your bulk bottles only used to refill the small container when empty.

even the best pumps I've come across generally allow some form of forward and backward flow, which can cause contamination and breakdown of the monomer stored. If it works for you that's great, but dispensing to a small dappen dish ensures one less thing that 'could' cause you service breakdown.

Monomer evaporation with oxygen has a two fold problem -
one, the evaporation does indeed alter the formula, there is far more than just one type of monomer in the liquid, and different ingredients evaporate at different levels
two, oxygen and other contaminants degrade the formula by bonding themselves in and creating new molecules and damage to the original chemicals...

hope that all helps a little...