Pitted nails?

[VHunter]

The boyfriend of a friend of mine has a nail condition I'm unable to identify.

Some months ago, she brought him to me (because he refused to see a Doctor). First symptoms were 'greenies' and onycholosis. I urged him to see a Doctor and told him to use Tea-tree oil 2x daily in the meantime.

The greenies are now gone and so is the onycholosis. But he never did go see the Doctor as I had urged.
She brought him by again for another visit.
His nail plates are now 'pitted' (kind of like tiny pock-marks?) AND this condition is now present on his toenails as well, apparently.

I did some research and all I could find was reference to Psoriasis & Alopecia (loss of hair, which he has a full head so it doesn't apply). There is no evidence of Psoriasis either.
Other research also suggested Vitamin deficiency. But... he's a pretty hefty guy...
And lastly, a keratin deficiency (but wouldn't that also affect hair and skin, and again, both skin and hair are in great condition)
They supposed it might be because he was a nail-biter but I've never seen the like on nail biters before AND well... he didn't bite his toe-nails LMFAO

I again urged him to visit a Doctor explaining that internal issues can present with symptons of the skin/hair/nails.

Has anyone any insight?

The 'pitts' are all over the nail plate... numbering in about ohhhh 20 or so per nail. Very tiny.

 

[mum]

Sounds very much like psoriasis on the nail plate. It isn't that uncommon and I don't know of any cure. Usual psoriasis is hard enough to cure and it's even more difficult on the nails.

A friend of mine has had it for years and his nails are a mess. He's tried all sorts

Sorry I don't have a solution just a possible answer

 

[VHunter]

Thanks for your answer!

But wouldn't Psoriasis also present on the skin if it presented on the nails? Or can it be independant?

THANKS

 

[geeg]

Thanks for your answer!

But wouldn't Psoriasis also present on the skin if it presented on the nails? Or can it be independant?

THANKS

no .. i've seen many wth psoriasis of the nails but their body is not affected.

 

[VHunter]

Ahhhhh Learn something new every day.

THANKS!!

 

[Bagpuss]

could you do a overlay on nails with mild psoriasis as long as you where careful with prep...just to make the surface and overall appearance look better....?

 

[geeg]

could you do a overlay on nails with mild psoriasis as long as you where careful with prep...just to make the surface and overall appearance look better....?

Absolutely .. I have had great success doing this and the clients are SO thrilled with the results.

You know it is really an unsightly condition that is impossible to hide in any other way but enhancment. Confidence level soars !!
One thing I have found is that regular use of Solar Oil really benefits this condition and as the nails tend to be very dry they really need to use it more than the average person.

 

[uniq12u]

First of all diagnosing and recommending treatment on a client is not within our certification. We are not doctors and have no degree to do either of these things. And IMO applying any nail enhancement on someone with psoriasis is opening yourself up for a lawsuit should their condition worsen. In reading up on this condition clients with this condition should avoid all nail trauma. Could this mean even prepping the nail for an enhancement? I wouldn't want to take the chance, but that is JMO!

 

[An*Gel]

I know we aren't allowed to diagnose and we aren't doctors but IMO I think us nail techs know more than doctors do about nail conditions.

I WOULD do his nails and wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

It does sound like Psoriasis of the nail plate... not too uncommon and I've often done nails for a client with this condition and they've been thrilled with the result.

 

[mum]

As with any condition there are always degrees (plus a final diagnosis should always be with a Dr)

If the nail is not too delicate and there is no real lifting then a thin, short enhancement should be fine. However, if the nail is delicate I have found a thin layer of resin will protect the nail and give a good smooth base for painting that will hide the worst.

When giving any advise like this I am assuming it is to a professional that hasn't been doing nails for that long or hasn't encountered specific situations. I am also assuming that common sense counts for everything!

I don't believe any of the experienced technicians who give advice on here would for one second want to take the place of a doctor. I suppose it all depends where the advice comes from!

 

[NoLimitNails]

I agree it's most likely psoreasis.

But I will say that even a trip to GP isn't always a sure way to find out. I have had a few clients with this, from severe cases to mild pitting, and for all of them except the most servere case the GP wasn't sure. But as no teatments they tried the GPs said it's probably psoreasis

Regarding treatment or not, just be sure to keep enhancements short OR as I have in the most servere case (she wanted a bit more length than I advised) make her sign some kind of paper, where she take responsibility for any damage etc. by having you do the enhancement Iykwim.

Actually not having them overlayed can actually cause more trauma to the nail, thats my experience though.

And I bet almost any of the experienced techs on here Gigi, Mum and many many others know what they are doing too:hug: so I wouldn't worry...

Regarding cure, I have a client who's invited to an experiment on a university hospital, something about a light treatment. This could be interesting to follow, as uv-light has a positive effect on psoreasis on the skin, but cannot wrap my head around how, or if it'll work

 

[mum]

I agree it's most likely psoreasis.

But I will say that even a trip to GP isn't always a sure way to find out. I have had a few clients with this, from severe cases to mild pitting, and for all of them except the most servere case the GP wasn't sure. But as no teatments they tried the GPs said it's probably psoreasis

Regarding treatment or not, just be sure to keep enhancements short OR as I have in the most servere case (she wanted a bit more length than I advised) make her sign some kind of paper, where she take responsibility for any damage etc. by having you do the enhancement Iykwim.

Actually not having them overlayed can actually cause more trauma to the nail, thats my experience though.

And I bet almost any of the experienced techs on here Gigi, Mum and many many others know what they are doing too:hug: so I wouldn't worry...

Regarding cure, I have a client who's invited to an experiment on a university hospital, something about a light treatment. This could be interesting to follow, as uv-light has a positive effect on psoreasis on the skin, but cannot wrap my head around how, or if it'll work

That's interesting about the light experiment. Sunlight definitely helps the skin version and I've heard that 'red light' is good too. Trouble is that the nail version is so hard to treat. Keep us all informed

 

[NoLimitNails]

I will do that:hug: I believe it's still on experimental state, but far enough ahead to treat humans, so it'll be very interesting to see results, and if the results are good enough to actually be worth it economically (darn money)

Sorry to hijack the thread Victoria.:hug:

 

[VHunter]

First of all diagnosing and recommending treatment on a client is not within our certification. We are not doctors and have no degree to do either of these things. And IMO applying any nail enhancement on someone with psoriasis is opening yourself up for a lawsuit should their condition worsen. In reading up on this condition clients with this condition should avoid all nail trauma. Could this mean even prepping the nail for an enhancement? I wouldn't want to take the chance, but that is JMO!

Are you blind? Or did you miss the part where I recommended that he seek the advice of a Doctor? Not once, but TWICE??

Secondly, when prep is done PROPERLY, there is NO trauma to the natural nail plate.
If your prep is causing trauma, you might want to rethink how you're doing it.

Lastly, I've no intention of doing his nails. He was seeking council. I gave the best advice that I could with the knowledge I had at hand AND told him to see a Doctor.

However, if he had been a woman, it wouldn't have been a problem to do enhancements for several reasons, two of which are:
My clients sign disclaimers
My prep does NOT cause trauma

No, I'm not a doctor. But there was really absolutely no need for you to go off the deep end since I was only seeking to learn what the condition was.

 

[Gigit]

You had stated "Other research also suggested Vitamin deficiency. But... he's a pretty hefty guy..."

Just to note, most often those that are overweight even morbidly obese are malnourished and severely deficient in vitamins and minerals due to improper food choices.

 

[VHunter]

You had stated "Other research also suggested Vitamin deficiency. But... he's a pretty hefty guy..."

Just to note, most often those that are overweight even morbidly obese are malnourished and severely deficient in vitamins and minerals due to improper food choices.

Yes, I did ponder that myself. But after questioning, I ascertained it was an average diet. (I should have mentioned that). Although, we all break things down differently (fast metabolism, slow one...), so it's still a possibility.
I did end up telling him that when he did see the Doctor, to ask for a complete blood workup (been a while since he's had a physical) to rule out underlying issues that might cause such 'symptoms'.

 

[uniq12u]

I'm not blind and I did see where you referred to a doctor. But I also read where you mentioned two disorders and made a recommendation for treatment. Do what you want, it was just my opinion, but I've also received this information from Doug Schoon that we are not to diagnose or make recommendations for treatment. And if you had read what I posted, I asked a question about the trauma. It would depend on what your definition of trauma is. I wonder what a doctor would define it as? And how nice of you to assume that my prep causes trauma. Did I say it did?? NO!!

 

[geeg]

I'm not blind and I did see where you referred to a doctor. But I also read where you mentioned two disorders and made a recommendation for treatment. Do what you want, it was just my opinion, but I've also received this information from Doug Schoon that we are not to diagnose or make recommendations for treatment. And if you had read what I posted, I asked a question about the trauma. It would depend on what your definition of trauma is. I wonder what a doctor would define it as? And how nice of you to assume that my prep causes trauma. Did I say it did?? NO!!

Well you did indicate that prep causes trauma in your post ... if that is what you think, then ergo you must also think that your prep causes trauma .... Victoria was pointing out that she does a very gentle prep which in her opinion does not cause trauma.

I would remind youthat the nail plate is dead so it is pretty impossible to traumatise it. :lol: One could thin it and weaken it but not traumatise it so end of argument. (Although something tells me you wont be able to resist the last word lol.) On that note ....

As long as the Onycholysis is not pronounced beneath the nails that are pitted .. as long as there is no open cracked skin surrounding the nail plate, then there would be no harm in applying a light overlay to the surface of the nail plate. Of course keep the nails short and use Solar Oil every day at least 2 times per day.

As far as diagnosing something like this condition ... Doug is right that nail techs are not trained to do a doctors job ... however, there are some amendments to this rule that should be considered.

If an experienced professional has seen a condition numerous times that has been confirmed by a Dr. as being psoriasis ... then it is fair to say that they would have a pretty good idea of recognising the same condition again through that experienced eye. Not to say that we should diagnose the condition but more get what we suspect, to be confirmed.

Having had 5 children all of whom had measles and chickenpox over the years, I don't need a doctor to tell me that a child has chicken pox. I would always get my suspicions confirmed but with experience I know. There are also many nurses out there that can diagnose better than some doctors because of their experience even though they may not have the letters after their name to be able to do so.

Some nail technicians have the experience and some do not ... those that don't shouldn't ... those that do can use their experience and expertise and knowledge to help.

 

[VHunter]

I'm not blind and I did see where you referred to a doctor. But I also read where you mentioned two disorders and made a recommendation for treatment. Do what you want, it was just my opinion, but I've also received this information from Doug Schoon that we are not to diagnose or make recommendations for treatment. And if you had read what I posted, I asked a question about the trauma. It would depend on what your definition of trauma is. I wonder what a doctor would define it as? And how nice of you to assume that my prep causes trauma. Did I say it did?? NO!!

If you are referring to the greenie and onycholosis, I also referred him to a doctor for that.
As for the "treatment"... it is WELL PROVEN that tea-tree oil does in fact get rid of pseuodomonas bacteria (greenie), it responds very well to tea-tree oil. There is in fact absolutely no harm in using it while he waits to see a doctor. In point of FACT... I once had the same issue when I had fallen 'up' the stairs and caused onycholosis on myself and my own pseudomonas bacteria DID NOT respond to the prescription by the doctor while it DID respond to the Tea-tree oil.

If you want to find fault with that I suggested a way of 'treating' the issue until such time as he could see a doctor, fine. Then the next time someone at your place hurts themself; I urge you not to offer them ice for their injury nor a bandage for their cuts because GOD FORBID we should treat anyone.

As for the rest of your silliness, Geeg was eloquent.

 

[uniq12u]

OMG!!!! I asked a question!!!!!!!! Instead you guys keep taking offense to anything I say and making assumptions on what I do, READ!!!!! Isn't it funny how some don't do as they instruct others to do. I didn't mention anything about what I do in prep. Since that is being brought up I wouldn't risk doing enhancements on someone with Psorasis on their nails because as a professional it isn't up to me to decide if that is safe for the client or not.

And what is even more interesting is the fact before I even knew of the response I got from Victoria I received PM's commenting on how rude her response was to me and that I have a right to voice my opinion. Isn't that what this forum is about????

I have tried and tried to do as Gigi instructed in being careful with my wording and even when I state it's my opinion or based on my experience or even ask a question I get jumped on. As far as I can see all you want to do is argue. It is tiresome and unprofessional!!

Why don't you ask Doug Schoon about your situation and see what he says. I asked him about similar situations and that was what he said to me.

I will no longer risk the backlash in making any responses to Victoria in the future. It isn't worth it in sharing information or experiences with others to continue this type of dialogue with her. Very counterproductive!!