Please urgent help gel nails not lasting more than 3 days!

[waxprincess]

Creative's Acid-Free Primer, does that have MMA in it? I'll have to pull the MSDS on it, but I don't think it does because the salon I work at is very strict about not using anything that contains MMA.

Primer is not MMA. MMA is the acrylic monomer. Methamathacrylate. I am sure I spelled that wrong but it just shot out of my head!!

 

[EliteNailTech]

Primer is not MMA. MMA is the acrylic monomer. Methamathacrylate. I am sure I spelled that wrong but it just shot out of my head!!

Not so, unfortunately. It's one of those tricky things because not every primer bottle puts it on the label. A lot of powders also contain MMA, but powder MMA polymers are comparatively safe because they do not readily evaporate or penetrate the skin.

"Primer: Primers are usually made with 100% pure methacrylic acid. Although primers are caustic to skin, they are not caustic to the nail plate. Primers aid in product retention because one end of the molecular chain is attracted to the oil molecule in the natural nail plate, and the other end is attracted to the monomer molecule. Primers act like double-sided sticky tape."
Artificial Nail Terminology

I found out that NSI primer is MMA-based, and so is one of OPI's primers (I can't remember which one and I can't pull up the MSDS sheets on them).

Creative Acid-Free Primer contains no MMA.

In the 1970's the FDA in the U.S. only banned the production of products containing 100% MMA, so some manufacturers here are producing enhancement chemicals with a smaller concentration of the chemical. 30 states here have completely banned the use of monomers that contain any MMA. They don't care if it's only 1%, you can't use it. (Florida is one of those states.) However, those bans don't extend into other products that contain the chemical because when used in conjunction with other chemicals (like primers) the harmful properties of MMA are neutralized.

Here is a link to an article I found with more information. I'm not sure I agree 100% with everything in it, but it is what it is.
The MMA Controversy

Anyways, I'm glad that I looked this stuff up. Now I know why I have had to lay an extra coat of primer down since I started using the Acid-Free Primer. Some of the other techs I've talked to say they have to do the same. (In Florida, the weather, the beach, and sunscreens are our biggest enemy...lots of oils!) The only tech that said she only needs 2 coats uses NSI primer, which contains MMA. I wish they wouldn't make this chemical stuff so complicated!!!

 

[zeldana]

i se the edge gel aswell and have been having a few probs with them as well only with 2 clients though with the gel compleetley coming off but the tips stay on thought it coz i wasent letting the primer dry first but havent had a client to try it on yet ither that or poor prep lol

 

[zeldana]

sorry *use

 

[Louise Manby]

quote: "it's also worth checking if the c-curve of your tip matches the c-curve of your clients natural nail; for instance, if your tip is much curvier than the natural nail then the centre portion will not be attached properly and even if you have forced it flat then it will forever by trying to "pop off" due to its shape

likewise if you use a flatter tip on a really curvy nail then the "wings" will very likely not lie properly"

I agree with this and think its most definately that you have not built up the stress area enough (middle area of nail). It needs to be much thicker here so the tips dont snap off. If you find that when doing this that your tips end up thicker, do the buffing over the nail thing at the end to shape your tip into more of a point, but still leaving the stress area thicker.
As far as acetone goes I used to use it to dehydrate and had no probs but now I use finishing wipe (star nails - isoprophyl alcohol) instead. No reason just that I have it in the pump on the desk. They both dehydrate. When you use gel, it is not affected by the acetone as it is non-porous, nothing can penetrate it, so the acetone is not weakening the gel. Also when you do the buffing over the nail at the end to shape it, you can gently go round the cuticle area with the file to smooth any bumps or take down excess gel at the cuticle area (which causes lifting - where the gel touches the nail it should be very flat and a gradual thickening as it goes up towards the stress area), if it is applied too thick at the cuticle it will lift. But dont buff around the cuticle too hard as you can push the nail plate apart from the gel and lift it yourself!
It takes ages to perfect your nails and I wish I had this site to solve problems like this in my first year!

 

[blossom]

Thanks that is great
I'm going to print that off lol
the only thing Im not sure about now, is I know you said you use 2 lamps for speed how would I get round it , as curing each nail x 3 gels for 2 mins each would take forever!
would I do what I have read on here a freeze cure each one for 10 secs then I can do them all through each gel stage and then put in lamp for the 2 mins


thanksx

Apply bonder to five nails, cure, whilst curing apply to other hand, then swap hands, then freeze cure each nail individually after the builder layer which is thicker, by exposing to uv for 10 seconds before moving on to the next nail, then give them all a full cure at the end. You would only need 2 lamps for speed if you are pretty fast, it shouldn't take too long if you only have one lamp, they just have to sit there cross-handed lol

 

[Louise Manby]

I have the same problems with gels, but I live in Florida, and the humidity here breaks the gel product down quickly.

I would blame the priming pen, if all of the other advice doesn't work. Is it like a cloth or felt tip? It seems to me that something like that would get contaminated with oils pretty easily. I think it's better to use a regular primer with a brush because you can wipe the brush off before putting it back into the bottle. I had problems with my acrylics lifting until I had another tech tell me to replace my primer and start wiping the brush off on a paper towel after every use before putting it back in the bottle. I also started priming three times after prepping the nail. One coat on all ten to dehydrate, another coat to all ten to help adhere, and a third "wet coat" to the five on the hand I'm working on. Perhaps that would help? It works well with my acrylics, but I don't know if you can put gels on top of wet primer.

I got so frustrated:irked:, I gave up on gels until I go to the next CND Master Class to learn from an expert.

I dont get it, how can so many people find gel hard?? I find l&p anoyying but I suppose 'we like what we like!' Someone stated that if you apply gel before the primer has dried it causes lifting and burns. Not so (depending on products of course). I use IBD primer with star nails gel, and a finishing wipe for both dehydrating and wiping off sticky residue. Only 3 products and I never get any lifting ....at all! Even after 4-6 weeks. And I like to apply the gel when the primer is only half dry. Reason - I believe this primer is like a very watered down gel, therefore does penetrate the nail plate like most other primers but also hardens a little like a gel (a very watery gel) so therefore giving the gel an excellent base to stick to, better than just sticking to the natural nail. You have to be careful with this primer not to put too much on as it can run into the cuticle and harden under the uv light and looks like the gel has run into the cuticle, but its not it just the primer. This lifts when the nail grows out and looks like poor application of gel.
Anyhoo, a bit of info.

 

[zeldana]

hmmm so many theories, the edge primer i use i like a pen and it sort of sokes in to the nails ive used the same gel lots of times and its only happened with 2 clients and all the gel lifted off but the tip stayed on the nail i agree with building up the stress area, oww its all very stressfull sometimes lol

 

[oey]

hmmm so many theories, the edge primer i use i like a pen and it sort of sokes in to the nails ive used the same gel lots of times and its only happened with 2 clients and all the gel lifted off but the tip stayed on the nail i agree with building up the stress area, oww its all very stressfull sometimes lol

Zeldana - are you removing the shine off the tips and how old are the bulbs in the lamp? They may need replacing.

 

[zeldana]

i lightler buff over the tips maby not enouth thats prob the reason sounds like it and the bulbs are about 2 m old

 

[Cait]

http://www.salongeek.com/nail-geek/...ver-new-product-used-all-gone-very-wrong.html

Now - you can make up your own mind but since I stopped using scrubfresh - the problem has vanished (as I was using Cesars gel products) I went out and spent nearly 20 euro on scrubfresh because everyone kept stating what a fantastic product it is for prepping the nail - I have no doubt that it is but only if you use it with CND products as Jenni Giles states on the post above.
I now use the left over big bottle as a very expensive nail polish remover and before I do a polish on natural nails (!)

just bear this in mind

Cait x

 

[treaseypops]

Hi i have just become a nail technician and i have had thesame problem with one of my clients. I think my problem was the length so i took them right down. I dont know whether this helps but i use sanitizer to dehydrate the nail. Good luck i just wish i could do a set in under 2 hours.Theresa.

 

[rallybabe]

I am having problems with gel nails also im using THE EDGE and the day after i do them there chipping off (the gel). I do teh sequence and get to the end of Buffing up, i tried to apply just a coloured nail polish on the tips let them dry and applied the Gloss top coat. The nexy day, the gel was chipping off and eventually the tips broke:cry::cry:

 

[emmaspeers]

Are u capping the free edge - so bringin the gel right over the tip and slightly tucking underneath if poss? Are u using primer? Are u doing base gel 1mm away from cuticle and then sealing the top coat over? I know theres also been a few posts on here abotu the edge products and havent seen many good posts, but no experience of the product myself...

 

[rallybabe]

Are u capping the free edge - so bringin the gel right over the tip and slightly tucking underneath if poss? Are u using primer? Are u doing base gel 1mm away from cuticle and then sealing the top coat over? I know theres also been a few posts on here abotu the edge products and havent seen many good posts, but no experience of the product myself...

Thanks for the reply, yep doing everything by the book :zzz: When i apply the tip i then use primer on Natural nail only, and do nothing with the tip, does that sound right to you. I come the the very end and i was told that you then can apply enamel, any colour over the gel, let it dry and apply the EDGE gloss top coat but it's just not working :irked: I was thinking im not putting enough Gel on or something. Wasn't very happy with the course I did because ever since i'v being having problems and it's not good

 

[emmaspeers]

r u not taking the shine off the tip then? U must remove shine off tip, some ppl do this before applying and others do it once applied... i do it once on the nail but be careful not to catch their natural nail plate... i use a 100 grit file to remove the shine from the tip, dont use this on natural nail tho

 

[emmaspeers]

If u havent been removing shine this would def explain it - within a day or 2 they would def lift - i used zebra nails form ebay, and when i got them i couldnt take shine off or pattern would ocme with it - my friend wanted them desperately for a party so i explained they wouldnt last altho they made nrly a wk before liftin, but u could see slight edges liftin after 2 days...

 

[katiebbaby]

Not so, unfortunately. It's one of those tricky things because not every primer bottle puts it on the label. A lot of powders also contain MMA, but powder MMA polymers are comparatively safe because they do not readily evaporate or penetrate the skin.

"Primer: Primers are usually made with 100% pure methacrylic acid. Although primers are caustic to skin, they are not caustic to the nail plate. Primers aid in product retention because one end of the molecular chain is attracted to the oil molecule in the natural nail plate, and the other end is attracted to the monomer molecule. Primers act like double-sided sticky tape."
Artificial Nail Terminology

I found out that NSI primer is MMA-based, and so is one of OPI's primers (I can't remember which one and I can't pull up the MSDS sheets on them).

Creative Acid-Free Primer contains no MMA.

In the 1970's the FDA in the U.S. only banned the production of products containing 100% MMA, so some manufacturers here are producing enhancement chemicals with a smaller concentration of the chemical. 30 states here have completely banned the use of monomers that contain any MMA. They don't care if it's only 1%, you can't use it. (Florida is one of those states.) However, those bans don't extend into other products that contain the chemical because when used in conjunction with other chemicals (like primers) the harmful properties of MMA are neutralized.

Here is a link to an article I found with more information. I'm not sure I agree 100% with everything in it, but it is what it is.
The MMA Controversy

Anyways, I'm glad that I looked this stuff up. Now I know why I have had to lay an extra coat of primer down since I started using the Acid-Free Primer. Some of the other techs I've talked to say they have to do the same. (In Florida, the weather, the beach, and sunscreens are our biggest enemy...lots of oils!) The only tech that said she only needs 2 coats uses NSI primer, which contains MMA. I wish they wouldn't make this chemical stuff so complicated!!!

However if you use a keratin bonding monomer such as retention it creates a covelant bond so a primer is not needed.

I very rearley use primer only ever scrub fresh. x

 

[geeg]

I have never used primer in 16 years now!! Don't even own a bottle of the stuff. :green:

 

[katiebbaby]

Gigi I have had quite a few client referals lately whom have all been going to the same tech for a few years. I have noticed they have very dry brittle enhancments in z2 and z3, they have never owned a bottle of solar oil or been told to use at home:cry::cry: and they are all complaining of the colour not being as it used to look mostly the pink when I first did their rebalance they were all suffering with terrible pocket lifting, it kinda was very dry and was flaking in z2 z3.

Could over use of primer over months and months have caused the above problems, ie loss of colour dry and brittle and ultimatley over time pocket lifting? they all said there prev tech used primer little blue bottle at every maintenance appointment.

:hug::hug: