Professional Recommendations?

[Sophiea]

Awesome replies guy's...I love it. Thanks for taking the time to really think about this subject.

Permit me to break this down a bit further and we can get even deeper into the subject.

Professional Products -vs OTC's can be looked at as more of a political thing.

At least here in the States. I started in this industry 26 years ago and I remember the days when PRO Products really were pro products. There were only a few great Companies...most of them owned by Stylists or Beauty Families...this goes for Hair Skin and Nails.

Salons could count on Distributors and Manufacturers to be there, always offering, serious training, excellent products and whatever support we needed. They were the ones wooing the Salons and Stylists. We jumped on the band wagon and made their products popular, available to OUR clients...we made our clients their clients.

We old Salon Owners felt stabbed in the back...still do lol...when everything started to shift. Now Some of the Companies we made great..I'll use Aveda (after Estee' Lauder bought them up) as an example... Aveda demands $7500 opening orders. And major sales quotas to even speak their name in our Salons. I don't know how it goes with you guy's across the pond :hug: I would love to know more.

Those of us who remember the good old days may feel a little more political about this subject then you wonderful enthusiastic young-ins.

I will tell you that I am the biggest Skeptical "Product Hound" out there and I have tried many many products over the years. I was always very interested in Ingredients studied up in many different mediums...Cos and Hair Company classes and clinics and even a couple of collage chemistry classes and I love the internet...awesome research tool.

Enough about all that... I just wanted to share a bit of where my product pov comes from.

I don't support OTC's or even so called Pro products that can't keep their products out of the local grocery store or Mall. I encourage my Client's to support small business people rather than the huge chains...Ooops politics again:green:. And to support my feelings on this, most of the product in my salon are Private Label or Custom Blended by me. My Clients love this.

One more thing...sorry this is so long winded...My retail is a major source of income for me. Because the mark ups are better.

If we are to be truly Professional ... Like other Professionals ... our knowledge about our products and what we recommend defines us.

Cheers All, I love all of your contributions in this thread and would love to hear more. Sophiea

 

[bombini]

Could i just turn it around ever so slightly??:lol:

Does that mean that salon and professional brands once start out in salons and spas and then go into Department stores are still regarded as "professional"??

I have loved reading the posts in this thread !

I think there are both pros and cons for selling professional ranges in department stores, QVC etc.

For instance I love Decleor & I still reccommend it now even though Im not lucky enough to stock it, just because it is available in House of Fraser & QVC would people think that it is no longer professional ? I hope not

One advantage is that consumers know about Elemis, Decleor, Gatineau etc because they have seen it & heard about it in magazines & stores.

But I feel in general there are more disadvantages from a salons retail point of view. The big department stores all have their own loyalty cards which earn you points on your purchases, it can be more convienient (sp) to stock up while your out in town and the worst (imo) is that salon brands are no longer seen as salon brands. Also some of the brands have their own websites which offer huge discounts & free gifts.

How many people think Clarins has always just been OTC products ? It actually started as a Professional range, I didn't even know that until I did my training with them !

I hardly ever reccommend OTC products for the simple reason that I hardly use any so wouldn't know what to reccommend !

 

[Jeni Giles]

It apparently hasn't hit you yet in Idaho Jeni, All Stores, Fredmeyers, Rite Aid, Target, even some clothing stores over here sell blackmarketed Professional products. As you say, usually a couple of dollars higher, but in loads.


We are really debating about the recommending OTC products.At least that what we WERE discussing. LOL

it is really tight back here, sandi and I both are sharing this tree, but you are welcome to join us..:lol: I am sure I would have gotten a few neg reps for this one...

Who's on my foot??

Fortunately or not- we don't have a huge department store issue, we've only got Fred Meyer and Shopko, our Rite Aid is almost empty and is mostly open for the pharmacy, we don't expect them to be open much longer since we just got a Walgreens. Our Walmart has a Smart Style in it so they retail professional things from there.

Because we are in a school, I spend quite a bit of time education our students as well as their clients about the differences between professional and OTC products. I make it an issue to show only the differences and not "trash talk" the OTC companies.

Will an OTC shampoo clean your hair?
yes

Is OTC shampoo bad for your hair?
No, if you don't have professional salon treatments such as color or perm

What happens if I use OTC instead of buying your shampoo?
We cannot guaruntee our service unless you are using professionally recommended and recognized products.

What will happen to my hair if I continue using OTC after my color?
you may notice your color fading more quickly, your hair may feel more dry, and the fillers and waxes found in OTC products may prevent the color from staying.

What happens if I use OTC after my perm?
Your perm may relax sooner and we cannot guaruntee the longevity of your service.

An easy demonstration for a client about the difference is to physically show them, we use the edge of a shear or have them run their thumbnail down a strand from scalp to end and look at the amount of wax build up that they have. Usually that is enough to get them on a hair care regimine specific to thier hair care needs.

Our school is lucky enough to have an owner that brings in outside education and product knowledge classes. They get stuck learning chemistry so they can recognise the ingredients that make the products work and are able to make informed choices. For most of us in a professional setting we make reccommendations on our personal preferences and because of our passion about that product our client buys it. If we are using the cheapest, most inexpensive products that we REALLY believe in, our clients will buy that, same goes for the most expensive product.

To me the difference is like this- McDonalds or a 5 star resturant, They both have food to fill me up but one may be healthier and more expensive while the other is quick and easy. They both meet my needs, it will just depend on the budget.

Thanks for getting off my foot, much better now!

 

[becki x]

I have been trying to think of how i would word my post without it turning into an essay,or a load of drivel,it didn't work so bear with me

I use/retail and recommend professional products to my clients. Partly because i have faith in them,partly by way of offering the same kind of support i expect back from my product company and partly because it's my bread and butter.

However,i use an OTC for my hair (just one :! but i do,it's fantastic.I have found nothing out there like it. i don't freely recommend it,but if asked i would tell them where i purchased it.

In all honesty i don't really feel comfortable doing this,but i have found nothing that compares,so whad da ya do geeks ?????????

I believe it depends on the product itself tbh,for example : i would not ever recommend a home hair dye or perm,however this product is a shine product,it has no hold whatsoever and simply glosses the hair (exceptionally well IMO) as well as being in expensive and very long lasting i would recommend it.

As i said i would have to be asked,and i wouldn't recommend it on a professional forum (pm me :wink2 lol as it is not a professional product.

So in conclusion to my waffle,i have so far only found one OTC product which is superior to a pro product and i would recommend it even though i don't necessarily think i should as a professional .

 

[florence2004]

does a lot of it also depend on where the advice is coming from?

I have used Decleor and Elemis in the past and bought their products from department stores but only after the products were recommended to me by a fully qualified beauty therapist.

I know a lot of the staff on the make-up counters have also had a lot of training and know a lot about the produtcs but unless they have in depth knowledge of your skin or hair or nails from having "treated" you how can they give the correct recomendations?

 

[Chameleon]

Thats exactly wht my point is aswell,how can these "professionals" recommend a product if they have had no in depth training,and not the 2 day "in depth" trining.

Im sorry if thats annoying to some and im sure that there ARE qualified to a recognised qualification....but im still dubious.

Elemis now have these "skin bars" that tempt the customer to try,but where are the therapists doing the treatments??

It has disheartened me a great deal to know i invested alot of money and not only have no back up from them and lose out to reatail.

That is why now i wish to use a brand thats "salon only" as the treatments and retail go hand in hand.I feel a truly professional brand can only do this.

 

[gillian w]

Thats exactly wht my point is aswell,how can these "professionals" recommend a product if they have had no in depth training,and not the 2 day "in depth" trining.

Im sorry if thats annoying to some and im sure that there ARE qualified to a recognised qualification....but im still dubious.

Elemis now have these "skin bars" that tempt the customer to try,but where are the therapists doing the treatments??

It has disheartened me a great deal to know i invested alot of money and not only have no back up from them and lose out to reatail.

That is why now i wish to use a brand thats "salon only" as the treatments and retail go hand in hand.I feel a truly professional brand can only do this.

As i have said i don't retail.
I can see the dilemma, but i think the problem is,is that with the net everything can be purchased from somewhere.I think this is why Elemis,Dermalogica,Decleor,Gatinneau many of them are all now going into the mainstream.
They don't want to be losing out when people were able to get their products anyway.
I must admit i get Decleor from QVC, they bulk buy huge quantities, noone can compete with their prices.I think as in many businesses eventually salon retail will disppear to quite an extent.People will have facials etc and if they like the products will look it up on the internet and get it from there.
We are all guilty of looking to get things from the cheapest source.
It will depend on your clientelle.If they are wealthy or just want convenience enough to not worry about prices they will buy from the salon they had the treatments if not they will take all your advice and go and buy what you have recommended elsewhere.

 

[Sophiea]

There are still some great Pro lines that arn't OTC and This is why I have my own label. I don't work for anyone but myself. I know my product inside and out. Although it did take a few years to get to the point where I could go this route.

It may not be the cheapest deal but Our Clients save money in the long run by not filling the cabinet with out of date products that ended up not being right for them. They can return a product they don't like. My Clients trust me and I earned that trust...not the Manufacturer. This is why Salon Retail will stay around. :green: IMO