Acne With Dry Skin. Is It possible?

[beautyfreak]

I too suffer from dry/sensitive skin AND am prone to acne breakouts.I do not believe only an oily skin will suffer from acne,and i know alot of people who are acne prone with no visible sign of oiliness whatsoever.

 

[weezie]

That's ok, I think it is better to hear other people's opinions and then make up your own mind. But on this note I will explain something that might help you to understand a bit better and hopefully help you in your studies..

A person's skin TYPE can never change, it is based on hereditary factors and the amount of oil flow a skin has, that aspect never changes (go on to read about dryness after menopause). So as humans we are either oily, dry, combination, or normal (except normal is generally considered to only be seen in children, as soon as your hormones kick in, so does your skin type).

What can and does change throughout life is your skin CONDITION; acne (although acne is widely debated between skin type & condition), dehydrated, prematurely aged, aged/ageing (this is where women tend to get dry because of a lack of eostrogen being produced, if you have an oily skin this is the only time it may change and is considered part of a skin condition), sun damaged etc..

This means as a therapist we cannot change a person's skin type, we can help to regulate oil flow by using products that will soak up oil, or feed the skin more oils if it needs it etc. but we can't change how much oil is actually being secreted. On the other hand, what we as therapists do alot of is treat skin conditions. Skin conditions can affect any skin type at any time (although obviously some conditions are more common at certain ages and in certain environments), so this is why we are constantly treating acne, dehydration, pigmentation (sun damage) etc. on people's skin and why every person's skin is unique!

Very well said you are right we cannot change a skin type.

However on your other point-

No one has oily and dry skin you will find that it is dehydration that is actually being experienced on a combination (normal/oily) skin or that your dry skin is being clogged up by using too greasy a moisturiser, or clogged by the skin not exfoliating properly thus producing spots. To be honest real dry skin is actually very rare and mainly seen in people who suffer from excema. :hug:

Dehydration can seem very similar to dryness, a combination oily/normal skin with dehydration should be treated with a waterbased, oil balancing moisturiser.

 

[weezie]

You would treat a person with combination to dry skin with products for drier skins because they are mostly dry. Combination to oily skin is treated with products made for oily skins because the oily flow is good on the majority of the face.

I think you are confused as skin can only be a combination of oily/normal or dry/normal. As Mrs. Clooney says.

What does combination to oily and combination to dry mean? What is it a combination of? Also a combination skin can have either of the conditions more prevalent.:hug:

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

Determine your Skin Type ~ Acne Guidelines - Treatment,Causes,ScarsAcne Guidelines - Your knowledge can save your skin! Keep on Read!
Hope you find this link interesting. It's not the only one I found as there are others but I won't bore you all with them, lol.

According to this, skin types do change. As therapists we may not be able to change skin types but according to my research and what I learned at college skin types can change during the course of ones life.

 

[weezie]

Determine your Skin Type ~ Acne Guidelines - Treatment,Causes,ScarsAcne Guidelines - Your knowledge can save your skin! Keep on Read!
Hope you find this link interesting. It's not the only one I found as there are others but I won't bore you all with them, lol.

According to this, skin types do change. As therapists we may not be able to change skin types but according to my research and what I learned at college skin types can change during the course of ones life.

Very interesting article. I see what you mean, yes we cannot as therapists change a skin type but I guess hormonal changes will affect the skin first as a child and then at the menopause (in women). I wouldn't agree with skin type changing week to week though. I would say that was just skin condition. I think skin type is determined by internal causes and condition by external ones. Therefore I take it back that skin type will not change ever, but I think it takes a big internal change like puberty and then the menopause to effect this change and even then skin can become either more prone to breakouts or drier depending on the histology of the skin.

I would say in general though you are going to have oily skin if your oil glands are over productive and your pores are large and dry skin if they are under productive. So unless a big internal change occurs you are not going to change skin type.

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

Very interesting article. I see what you mean, yes we cannot as therapists change a skin type but I guess hormonal changes will affect the skin. I wouldn't agree with skin type changing week to week though. I would say that was just skin condition. I think skin type is determined by internal causes and condition by external ones. Therefore I take it back that skin type will not change but I think it takes a big internal change like the menopause to effect this change and even then skin can become more prone to breakouts or drier.

I would say in general though you are going to have oily skin if your oil glands are over productive and your pores are large and dry skin if they are under productive. So unless a big internal change occurs you are not going to change skin type.

Hiya Louise, I am by no means an expert, lol but this topic is giving my brain a good run for it's money :green:. It makes perfect sense to me though.

I don't by any means think skin type changes weekly, monthly or anually even. We have certain skin characteristics which we have inherited genetically and they could remain with us forever. These characteristics won't change.

 

[weezie]

Hiya Louise, I am by no means an expert, lol but this topic is giving my brain a good run for it's money :green:. It makes perfect sense to me though.

I don't by any means think skin type changes weekly, monthly or anually even. We have certain skin characteristics which we have inherited genetically and they could remain with us forever. These characteristics won't change.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you thought that, I just though the article implied it at one point-"First, skin type is never static. The variations of what is taking place on your skin can not only change season to season but month to month and even week to week." It should really have said, your skins "condition", not "type".

Skin is a minefield! :hug: It's good to explore this.

 

[Curly Bamboo]

I would recommend anyone interested in skin analysis and challenging old school methods of skin analysis to read "Advanced Skin Analysis" by Florence Barrett Hill.

Once reading this you will form your own opinions on how your would determine your clients skin type. You would even throw out the word "combination" out of your diagnosis.

In answer to your question Mrs Clooney, whenever I see acne on the client, I treat the skin as sensitised skin unless they are acne grade III. I would try and find the cause of the acne. You may also noticed while treating this client that their skin type will change as the acne clears up.

Also out of curiosity, if your client has breakouts that are not improving through facials and homecare prescribed by you, do you as Therapist discuss nutrition and hormonal imbalance tests (blood tests)?

 

[weezie]

Thanks for the recommendation x

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

I would recommend anyone interested in skin analysis and challenging old school methods of skin analysis to read "Advanced Skin Analysis" by Florence Barrett Hill.

Once reading this you will form your own opinions on how your would determine your clients skin type. You would even throw out the word "combination" out of your diagnosis.

In answer to your question Mrs Clooney, whenever I see acne on the client, I treat the skin as sensitised skin unless they are acne grade III. I would try and find the cause of the acne. You may also noticed while treating this client that their skin type will change as the acne clears up.

Also out of curiosity, if your client has breakouts that are not improving through facials and homecare prescribed by you, do you as Therapist discuss nutrition and hormonal imbalance tests (blood tests)?

Thank you for your input. Much appreciated and I will definitely look into this. x

 

[Nika]

I think you are confused as skin can only be a combination of oily/normal or dry/normal. As Mrs. Clooney says.

What does combination to oily and combination to dry mean? What is it a combination of? Also a combination skin can have either of the conditions more prevalent.:hug:

It is a combination of parts of the face that produce oil and parts of the face that don't produce oil. Such as a T-zone that produces oil and cheeks that do not, so therefore the person will have some dry parts and oily parts. Whether they are combination to oily (as I explained in another post better as combination with oily tendencies) is determined by how much of the face actually secretes oil. Is the oil flow spread across the nose and much of the cheeks (combination to oily or better said as combination with oily tendencies)? OR is the oil flow just on the nose and perhaps between the eyebrows (combination to dry or better said as combination with dry tendencies)?
I think what I am getting at is the same as you are calling oily/normal dry/normal. Except what we are taught as 'normal' skin type here in Australia basically only exists in children (perfect moisture levels, plump, even tone, perfect ol levels etc.) this is unheard of in adults. I think what you are calling normal is what we call combination. So from there we classify further to: combination with dry tendencies or combination with oily tendencies. Now make sense!? I musn't have explained it very well the first time although it sounded perfectly sane in my head! haha

Also as Weezie said I think the article posted should be saying skin condition rather than skin type because this indeed can change regularly. And as I wrote in my brief overview skin type's do change with hormones but they are then generally classified as conditions. Such as dryness after menopause called 'ageing' skin condition, that is the only real one that I can think of which changes skin type.

Everything else that can change with hormones does not change the level of sebum flow (which is the indicator for determining skin type) but definately does change the condition. You can get acne as a teenager, or around that time of the month due to hormonal changes but that doesnt tend to change the level of oil flow. As far as I can tell neither does being pregnant change oil flow much, although in some people pregnancy can cause acne, pigmentation etc. these are all conditions.

That being said there are so many books, articles etc. that have differing views on skin types and conditions, although from most things I've seen and read the level of oil flow generally determines skin type. It's what actually comes under the label 'skin type' or 'skin condition' that I have found tends to differ enourmously! I can only speak from my experiences so that is why I joined this site and try to read as much as I can , it is so great to hear other people's experiences and opinions (that is my best advice, read and listen to as many people as possible because there isn't always a hard and fast rule)

 

[Nika]

I would recommend anyone interested in skin analysis and challenging old school methods of skin analysis to read "Advanced Skin Analysis" by Florence Barrett Hill.

Once reading this you will form your own opinions on how your would determine your clients skin type. You would even throw out the word "combination" out of your diagnosis.

Thanks for the recomendation, sounds really interesting I think I have read an article from this author about skin analysis and it was great, I didn't know she had a book! I also agree with many early stage acne sufferers being sensitised, due to the barrier breakdown in a sensitised skin bacteria can penetrate easily and the skin goes into sebum production overdrive to try and get that protective lipid film onto the skin, but often getting stuck before it reaches the surface and causing comedones.

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

That being said there are so many books, articles etc. that have differing views on skin types and conditions, although from most things I've seen and read the level of oil flow generally determines skin type. It's what actually comes under the label 'skin type' or 'skin condition' that I have found tends to differ enourmously! I can only speak from my experiences so that is why I joined this site and try to read as much as I can , it is so great to hear other people's experiences and opinions (that is my best advice, read and listen to as many people as possible because there isn't always a hard and fast rule)

Until I can be convinced otherwise, I will continue to follow the method of skin analysis that I was taught at college, because this is what makes perfect sense to me.

Thank you for your explanations Nika about skin types. I appreciate that you have gone to alot of time and effort to explain. Your post does raise another interesting point, however, which I was planning to comment on, and that is your quote above.

I agree that there are many differing opinions from professionals regarding skin analysis. Susan Cressy's 'Beauty Therapy Fact File' comes as recommended reading for CIBTAC/CIDESCO, VTCT and ITEC. CIBTAC/CIDESCO teaches skin typing as normal, oily, dry, or combination normal to dry or normal to oily. It also teaches conditions as eg. sensitive, mature, dehydrated etc......

Susan cressy's book teaches skin types as normal, dry, sensitive, and oily. To me sensitivity is a condition. This is just one example but it does highlight different approches even amongst recommended professional reading material. There is also obviously a different view depending on qualifications and training establishments.

Much of what is shared is as you say also based on one's experiences. My career in beauty therapy has only just begun, lol.

 

[beautyfreak]

I would recommend anyone interested in skin analysis and challenging old school methods of skin analysis to read "Advanced Skin Analysis" by Florence Barrett Hill.

Once reading this you will form your own opinions on how your would determine your clients skin type. You would even throw out the word "combination" out of your diagnosis.

Thanks for the recomendation, sounds really interesting I think I have read an article from this author about skin analysis and it was great, I didn't know she had a book! I also agree with many early stage acne sufferers being sensitised, due to the barrier breakdown in a sensitised skin bacteria can penetrate easily and the skin goes into sebum production overdrive to try and get that protective lipid film onto the skin, but often getting stuck before it reaches the surface and causing comedones.

As i said in an earlier post my skin is dry/sensitive but prone to acne breakouts and what you have said about early stage acne sufferers being sensitised and bacteria being able to penetrate easier etc etc is definately true in my case...My skin is very sensitised due to using too many different brands and products in such a short space of time.As a result my skin is very dry/dehydrated,i have lots of superficial cracks on the surface and often experience the tight itchy feeling on my skin.My skin will not tolerate alot of products and most products cause a tingling/stinging sensation.I suffer from red sore angry lumps,comedones and pustules but do not have oily tendencies...This skin type/condition is sooo hard to treat and find products for,so i would love it if you could tell me what range/products you would suggest.I cannot visit a salon for them to look at my skin etc as i have body dismorphis disorder.

 

[weezie]

My skin will not tolerate alot of products and most products cause a tingling/stinging sensation.I suffer from red sore angry lumps,comedones and pustules but do not have oily tendencies...This skin type/condition is sooo hard to treat and find products for,so i would love it if you could tell me what range/products you would suggest.I cannot visit a salon for them to look at my skin etc as i have body dismorphis disorder.

Could you not manage to have someone come to you? I know it may make you anxious but you would be able to stay fully clothed. If we recommend something without looking at your skin and doing a thorough consultation we may make it worse. :hug:

 

[Curly Bamboo]

Nika - you are very lucky, Florence Barrett Hill is a Kiwi and she does many courses in Australia. She only comes to London once a year to teach her course. Her book is amazing, it makes you put your thinking caps on and the A&P section is more in-depth than CIDESCO level.

Beautyfreak - have you got any food intolerances? I am just guessing here - from my understanding about skin health there is a saying, you're skin is only as good as it is made out of. If you are lacking in essential fatty acids then when your body makes new (skin) cells it will be deficient in EFAs. The cellular membrane is made up of EFAs and it is important to have good membrane health to allow transfer of nutrients between the skin cells.

There is alot of talk about taking vitamins for skin health and also topically applying. I find this area highly interesting and look forward to any comments the forum geeks have on this subject.

As for T-zone. In my opinion, who hasn't got a T-zone different to other parts of the face, its almost an obvious diagnosis. This is the area where your face perspires the most. Why not just treat the majority skin type taking into consideration the skin condition? Hence, I don't use "combination" in my diagnosis.

 

[beautyfreak]

Could you not manage to have someone come to you? I know it may make you anxious but you would be able to stay fully clothed. If we recommend something without looking at your skin and doing a thorough consultation we may make it worse. :hug:

Not really,its not so much me being anxious about removing clothing,i have a fear of mirrors and of people looking closely at me...im a strange one!

I am a qualified therapist so i know i have described my skin accurately,and dont think another therapist could analyse it any better and to be honest ive had a few bad experiences with therapists not having a clue about skin types and the characteristics of skin conditions,therefore advising me on the wrong home care routine making my skin even more sensitised!

 

[Nika]

Nika - you are very lucky, Florence Barrett Hill is a Kiwi and she does many courses in Australia. She only comes to London once a year to teach her course. Her book is amazing, it makes you put your thinking caps on and the A&P section is more in-depth than CIDESCO level.

I found that out today! I have read some things by her but not her book, which I actually mentioned to another therapist I work with today and she also said the book is fantastic and she is great to hear in person (and that she is a kiwi)!! How did I let that one pass me by as I try to read so much!? haha

As for T-zone. In my opinion, who hasn't got a T-zone different to other parts of the face, its almost an obvious diagnosis. This is the area where your face perspires the most. Why not just treat the majority skin type taking into consideration the skin condition? Hence, I don't use "combination" in my diagnosis.

I think basically that's what I was getting at (if the skin is mostly dry treat it as dry etc.) I guess 'combination' is just the label, and why I extended that labels further to combination with dry tendencies or combination with oil tendencies.. But I do feel that each person's skin is so individual and for me labels are definately not rigid, although I do think they have an important standing for me to start with and build upon. But I can't wait to read the book and see what she has to say, from what I can tell she is alot more in depth and builds upon the traditional forms of diagnoses. I also agree with the fact that she feels that you have to treat the skin from the inside out. As therapists we can subdue a problem, but internal factors such as vitamin deficiencies & allergies are what needs to be fixed to solve the problem ( I love that you recommended EFA's, I agree wholehartedly).