Beauty therapist administering botox/injecting fillers

[Eyecandy2go]

As far as I'm aware non medical practitioners CAN administer fillers but not Botox

 

[smooth]

This is all really interesting and obviously makes gets lots of comments?
Im not sure if all you beauty therapists out there who have commented on this thread are aware of a new BT association the CTIA for BT who want to do or who are doing botox and fillers. I assume, but not sure if its launching at the PB show this weekend? Looks like they've teamed up with BABTAC? You have to meet certain criteria, but they have an inspectorate, accredited training, insurance etc in place and even been to see the Health Minister in London. I thought it was illegal for BT to do these treatments? Obviously not

have you not read the other posts on here? I have gone into detail about what is legal and what is illegal. A beauty therapist cannot direct someone else to give an injection only a medical professional can do this and that is one of the legal aspects. So can beauty therapists/associations be involved and actively teach or accredit? Nope, associations don't have the knowledge to do this and legally bt cannot tell someone else to give an injection. Associations can say yes we like this and we will give you our seal of approval but that means nothing.

You have to look at the legal aspects of this and even with fillers, it's an injection therefore a bt needs to be directed to administer this.

I am a prescribing nurse and have completed an indepth degree module on the legality of POMs i.e. botox, have read the MHRA and DOH guidelines til I can cite them in my sleep. Fillers are a medical device and as such do not have the POM act hanging over them but it's still an injection.

 

[HsarahH]

have you not read the other posts on here? I have gone into detail about what is legal and what is illegal. A beauty therapist cannot direct someone else to give an injection only a medical professional can do this and that is one of the legal aspects. So can beauty therapists/associations be involved and actively teach or accredit? Nope, associations don't have the knowledge to do this and legally bt cannot tell someone else to give an injection. Associations can say yes we like this and we will give you our seal of approval but that means nothing.

You have to look at the legal aspects of this and even with fillers, it's an injection therefore a bt needs to be directed to administer this.

I am a prescribing nurse and have completed an indepth degree module on the legality of POMs i.e. botox, have read the MHRA and DOH guidelines til I can cite them in my sleep. Fillers are a medical device and as such do not have the POM act hanging over them but it's still an injection.

If we were on facebook i would hit the "like" button! Am also a prescribing nurse (not for anything beauty related mind you) who will perhaps venture down this route in the future, but certainly not without thorough training first. Makes me very nervous to hear bt's who think they are able to prescribe and administer botox and fillers without any input from a medical professional just because someone on a very expensive course told them that this was acceptable!

 

[smooth]

If we were on facebook i would hit the "like" button! Am also a prescribing nurse (not for anything beauty related mind you) who will perhaps venture down this route in the future, but certainly not without thorough training first. Makes me very nervous to hear bt's who think they are able to prescribe and administer botox and fillers without any input from a medical professional just because someone on a very expensive course told them that this was acceptable!

This is a big problem as beauty therapists cannot legally prescribe and never will they be able to. They cannot say to a doctor or nurse prescriber give me a prescription of this as I want to inject 5 units here as that is illegal. These companies training beauty therapists aren't telling them this and that is wrong of them as they are blooming medical professionals, but they just have £££££££ signs in front of their eyes.

Even non prescribing nurses cannot state the units they will inject as that is still illegal. There are a lot of nurses breaking the law at the moment so beauty therapists will still be doing the same thing. Ignorance of not knowing the law is not an adequate excuse. You work in the area, it is up to you to know about it. I'm always urging the beauty therapists on here to not believe everything these companies say, they have a financial interest in you not finding out. It's almost embarassing to be a medical professional to know it is our profession not imparting all this information!!

 

[smooth]

Am also a prescribing nurse (not for anything beauty related mind you) who will perhaps venture down this route in the future, but certainly not without thorough training first.

You may want to change the setting as you are currently down as a professional of a lot of beauty treatments. It may save you being asked about nails, tanning and waxing :wink2:

 

[HsarahH]

Am also a prescribing nurse (not for anything beauty related mind you) who will perhaps venture down this route in the future, but certainly not without thorough training first. QUOTE]


You may want to change the setting as you are currently down as a professional of a lot of beauty treatments. It may save you being asked about nails, tanning and waxing :wink2:

Thank you, at the moment I am using a fair few strings from my bow! I do actually have training and experience in all of the services i have added to my profile. Not doing anything very serious with them at the moment, but am enjoying providing the treatments when i do!
My role as a nurse (I went to uni after college and still work as a nurse now, mainly to pay the mortgage! and i enjoy it of course) is not beauty related....yet :wink2:

 

[daisyl]

have you not read the other posts on here? I have gone into detail about what is legal and what is illegal. A beauty therapist cannot direct someone else to give an injection only a medical professional can do this and that is one of the legal aspects. So can beauty therapists/associations be involved and actively teach or accredit? Nope, associations don't have the knowledge to do this and legally bt cannot tell someone else to give an injection. Associations can say yes we like this and we will give you our seal of approval but that means nothing.

You have to look at the legal aspects of this and even with fillers, it's an injection therefore a bt needs to be directed to administer this.

I am a prescribing nurse and have completed an indepth degree module on the legality of POMs i.e. botox, have read the MHRA and DOH guidelines til I can cite them in my sleep. Fillers are a medical device and as such do not have the POM act hanging over them but it's still an injection.

As a fellow prescriber I have been saying the exact same thing for the past 18 months on this forum. I don't bother to post on here anymore (with the exception of course), for this very reason - to put it bluntly there are those whom think they know otherwise and totally disregard your professional opinion. If a medical qualification, with a prescribing degree (not gained lightly, as you say)! and a whole heap of medical experience and knowledge is discounted, then whats the point in imparting valuable knowledge - for free I may add! The argument is fruitless - the general public will not accept these MEDICAL treatments, on the whole, from practitioners other than those medically qualified anyway, and rightly so. Beauty therapies and Medical aesthetics are a world apart, only those with little knowledge and a lot of ignorance will argue otherwise.

And before those individuals get on their high horses - Just to clarify, I am not saying one is better than the other. Just completely different qualifications. If those therapists arguing that with training they should be able to offer such treatments - then go to any faculty of health at University and do the graft to gain a medical qualification. Then, and only then, can you even begin to train to offer Medical Cosmetic Treatments, and only after years of experience can you truly be putting the publics (your patients) best interests at heart. Anything less is damn dangerous.

 

[HsarahH]

As a fellow prescriber I have been saying the exact same thing for the past 18 months on this forum. I don't bother to post on here anymore (with the exception of course), for this very reason - to put it bluntly there are those whom think they know otherwise and totally disregard your professional opinion. If a medical qualification, with a prescribing degree (not gained lightly, as you say)! and a whole heap of medical experience and knowledge is discounted, then whats the point in imparting valuable knowledge - for free I may add! The argument is fruitless - the general public will not accept these MEDICAL treatments, on the whole, from practitioners other than those medically qualified anyway, and rightly so. Beauty therapies and Medical aesthetics are a world apart, only those with little knowledge and a lot of ignorance will argue otherwise.

And before those individuals get on their high horses - Just to clarify, I am not saying one is better than the other. Just completely different qualifications. If those therapists arguing that with training they should be able to offer such treatments - then go to any faculty of health at University and do the graft to gain a medical qualification. Then, and only then, can you even begin to train to offer Medical Cosmetic Treatments, and only after years of experience can you truly be putting the publics (your patients) best interests at heart. Anything less is damn dangerous.

100% agree with you. Perfectly put! I am qualified in beauty therapy, have a prescribing qualification and have been a nurse for over 10 years.... but i wouldnt even consider being able to prescribe, administer nor care for a client undergoing aesthetic treatments for years and years (full of experience) yet!

 

[calander girl]

Found it you guys! The site is www.ctia.co.uk Ive sent them an email and got a reply and Im gonna do the course.

Ill feed back to you when Im done, its in 3 weeks time? The training is done over 3 months.

 

[smooth]

Yet another blatant advert to which you have been reported for before. You clearly have a financial interest in this and are doing everything possible to advertise it against the rules of the site.

If anyone trains with this company they will be trained by someone who legally cannot train you nor will they have the legal knowledge behind the very centre of the topic. No beauty therapist can hold stock, carry stock or prescribe botox which is a prescription only medicine. They cannot legally instruct anyone else to administer an injection.

You cannot come up with a dosage of administration this is done by the prescriber who needs to see the patient face to face!

Since joining SG you have promoted this company which contains incorrect information and actively slates the very same medical professionals that you need to rely on for standard medical and emergency treatment as well as all your prescriptions albeit for personal use or for business. Two words spring to mind here!

All medical professionals are being made aware of this company's thoughts on people who provide prescriptions and I will be surprised if any medical professional will prescribe for anyone who holds your qualifications. Well done for advertising :

• an illegal act
• unfounded defamation of medical proffesions
• your openness to break the law

 

[daisyl]

Who prescribed for you smooth before you recently got your nip qualification and has your practice changed much? Personally was the best thing I did and has allowed my practice to grow in many other ways. The knowledge gained from the course has been invaluable and incredibly worthwhile. Although I have to say was the most intense thing I ever did in my life!

 

[SusanneLowe]

Erm, my beauty exam in the 90's was no picnic, I had to know the origins, actions and insertions of superficial muscles (we were asked to name 4 - so had to know them all) This was mainly for using faradic machines so we knew exactly which muscle we were stimulating, also motor points, a cross section of the skin and to label each layer of skin. my electrolysis exam required me to know the blood system, a cross section of the hair which we had to draw and label also the endocrine system in depth, then the body anatomy which we had to know all muscle groups, and the bones of the bosy and design a series of exercises for each muscle. Plus so much more, like chemistry and physics

Electrolysis - involves sliding a fine needle alongside the hair - IN the skin, but even after all my experience, knowledge and qualifications - I am only good to paint nails, wasted my time then I think.

Like I say, I don't wish to do this - but if I wanted to - I think I should have the option. The people I meet in beauty are intelligent and knowledgable, they chose to do beauty rather than the medical side thats all.

Oh god, I remember the 1990's exams well. In 2004 I decided to open my own salon and to re-sit the exams, as I had been out of the industry for many years. To my horror it had all been watered down and simplified. I can therefore see why some people are concerned about a therapist performing injections. Having said that, I was accepted to do chemical peels up to 70% and I did so much better than the 2 doctors, 1 nurse and 1 chemist. It was quite scarey that they seemed to have no understanding about the importance of aftercare after such proceedures. From the minute I walked in to the training room it was clear I was looked down on until the lessons began and then they realised I knew more and kept up and argued eloquently with anything they said. The trainer let this go on for a while and then put the "professionals" in their place by confirming what we therapist already know, we are not stupid and very capable and in some ways have a better understanding of the clients needs. What I never told them was many years ago I was a dental nurse. It really annoyed me that beauty therapists are not taken seriously. My clients, on the other hand, come to me for advice, one client actually asked if I do smear tests as she felt more comfortable with me than her GP! What does one say to that? All I said was that I have gone as far as I wish in that department. Back to injectables, I would like to to them so will be looking in to training and all my clients are keen.

 

[pazzy]

Oh god, I remember the 1990's exams well. In 2004 I decided to open my own salon and to re-sit the exams, as I had been out of the industry for many years. To my horror it had all been watered down and simplified. I can therefore see why some people are concerned about a therapist performing injections. Having said that, I was accepted to do chemical peels up to 70% and I did so much better than the 2 doctors, 1 nurse and 1 chemist. It was quite scarey that they seemed to have no understanding about the importance of aftercare after such proceedures. From the minute I walked in to the training room it was clear I was looked down on until the lessons began and then they realised I knew more and kept up and argued eloquently with anything they said. The trainer let this go on for a while and then put the "professionals" in their place by confirming what we therapist already know, we are not stupid and very capable and in some ways have a better understanding of the clients needs. What I never told them was many years ago I was a dental nurse. It really annoyed me that beauty therapists are not taken seriously. My clients, on the other hand, come to me for advice, one client actually asked if I do smear tests as she felt more comfortable with me than her GP! What does one say to that? All I said was that I have gone as far as I wish in that department. Back to injectables, I would like to to them so will be looking in to training and all my clients are keen.

And because of the current training standards - I agree with what Smooth is saying - scary for the public when some of these therapists - I wouldn't trust them cutting my toenails let alone free to stick needles in my face - but there are exceptional therapists out there too who I'm sure would put the graft in to do botox and then deliver an outstanding service . Legalities prevent this. That's just the way it is.

And to clarify - I really don't have any desire to do it - just way too risky for my liking.
I prefer make-up - you make a mistake - you can wipe it off!!!:lol:

 

[calander girl]

Yet another blatant advert to which you have been reported for before. You clearly have a financial interest in this and are doing everything possible to advertise it against the rules of the site.

If anyone trains with this company they will be trained by someone who legally cannot train you nor will they have the legal knowledge behind the very centre of the topic. No beauty therapist can hold stock, carry stock or prescribe botox which is a prescription only medicine. They cannot legally instruct anyone else to administer an injection.

You cannot come up with a dosage of administration this is done by the prescriber who needs to see the patient face to face!

Since joining SG you have promoted this company which contains incorrect information and actively slates the very same medical professionals that you need to rely on for standard medical and emergency treatment as well as all your prescriptions albeit for personal use or for business. Two words spring to mind here!

All medical professionals are being made aware of this company's thoughts on people who provide prescriptions and I will be surprised if any medical professional will prescribe for anyone who holds your qualifications. Well done for advertising :

• an illegal act
• unfounded defamation of medical proffesions
• your openness to break the law

Really weird!

 

[Lynne Baker]

Really weird!

How so?

Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand.

 

[calander girl]

I joined this site for advise and some help regarding my future career, and to be honest Im absolutely appauled by these threads. It all seems to have become very agressive (mainly from nurses) who seem to think that if ever you mention a name of a company (especially if its to do with botox) your advertising them?

Some of the stuff Ive seen on here is absolutely appauling? There are some BT who want to progress onto something more and if theres a way then why not. However Im one who needs to research what Im doing, I cant afford to throw away my money. And if I want to do my research on this site then I will. I will NOT be bullied into not being myself, by anyone. I think we need to look at what others write on here, as most of its written by some who are keen to promote themselves.

But Im not getting into this argument, its a bit of a joke! I want to try and keep professional.

 

[Lynne Baker]

I don't think anyone would deride you (or anyone else) for trying to progress their career, indeed there is much education offered on this site in the tutorial section.
I think the issue here is that no matter how much you might want to progress to offering certain advanced aesthetic treatment, under the current legislation you can't legally do so.

 

[HsarahH]

Very well said Lynne.

As you said Calender Girl, you came here looking for advise, and from what I can see that is what everyone gave. Advice against the company and the service they were offering, and we then all went on to justify our replies. If you ask for peoples advice their opinions wont always be what you want to hear, but you asked. And surely the replies have given you the impression that this is certainly not the way to go about things. If you feel you wish to work with Botox, fillers ect that is great, and as Lynne said no one would deride you from this, but this company is not offering a safe or legal way to do this. So I dont think these replies are "bullying", I think they are honest and passionate about keeping clients safe and attempting to prevent unqualified therapists (and by that i mean any therapist, be it beautician, nurse, dentist ect) delivering unsafe practice which could destroy the reputation of people practicing according to guidelines.

Please dont think this reply is aggressive, i can assure you it is not meant to be read in that way. Good Luck with whatever you decide.

 

[calander girl]

HsarahH, no Im not thinking that you are aggressive in any way. The aggressivness comes from the pm's that Ive received? I think I should have replied via the pm route rather than on the main threads. Im not that good at this stuff yet?

 

[ashalina23]

I was at a meeting of Drs, Dentists and Nurses working in the Botox/aesthetic world only on Wednesday and the whole subject cropped up there too. One of the underlying reservations that there is is that whoever whether they are a Dr dentist, nurse or Beauty Therapist especially with things like dermaroller may not be able to recognise the type of skin lesions which actually require surgical removal.