Best wrinkle treatment before Botox?

[mikem]

Nice cup of tea anyone.

Cup of tea, slice of cake and a chill pill would be good.

It's always interesting when you get two strongly internally referenced individuals who both have a clear sense of what is 'right' disagreeing, especially when both feel the need to have the last word. You can see the disagreement spiraling to nuclear Armageddon because neither can get out of the spiral.

The dilemma is whether stopping will be seen as strength or weakness, both internally as well as externally. The trouble with spirals is that there is a point after which both participants go beyond the line that the audience consider reasonable and the argument is lost for both of them.

In terms of client behaviours (and this is a generalisation), if one is risk averse in ones patterns, one would tend not to have laser eye surgery, botox, face lifts etc unless there was a driver that overrode it. (e.g I know someone who I would rate as risk averse who had a significant breast reduction because the reduction was more important than the risk.) Similarly those who filter out the negatives will go for invasive treatments with little thought of the long term affects because it gives them what they want now.

There will always be clients who will go for botox, smoke, use sunbeds, have face lifts and others that will avoid them. If there are consequences, there are consequences - they will have to live with it.

Having read through the thread I was thinking that it is great we have a wide range of options for clients and it's great that practitioners are passionate about what they do.

Now I don't want to get all linguistically picky but I thought agreeing to disagree was an end point, not a tagline

 

[connor1]

Cup of tea, slice of cake and a chill pill would be good.

It's always interesting when you get two strongly internally referenced individuals who both have a clear sense of what is 'right' disagreeing, especially when both feel the need to have the last word. You can see the disagreement spiraling to nuclear Armageddon because neither can get out of the spiral.

The dilemma is whether stopping will be seen as strength or weakness, both internally as well as externally. The trouble with spirals is that there is a point after which both participants go beyond the line that the audience consider reasonable and the argument is lost for both of them.

In terms of client behaviours (and this is a generalisation), if one is risk averse in ones patterns, one would tend not to have laser eye surgery, botox, face lifts etc unless there was a driver that overrode it. (e.g I know someone who I would rate as risk averse who had a significant breast reduction because the reduction was more important than the risk.) Similarly those who filter out the negatives will go for invasive treatments with little thought of the long term affects because it gives them what they want now.

There will always be clients who will go for botox, smoke, use sunbeds, have face lifts and others that will avoid them. If there are consequences, there are consequences - they will have to live with it.

Having read through the thread I was thinking that it is great we have a wide range of options for clients and it's great that practitioners are passionate about what they do.

Now I don't want to get all linguistically picky but I thought agreeing to disagree was an end point, not a tagline

Back to your corners and make ready for the next round - ding ding !

I couldn't have put it better myself Mike! XX:hug:

 

[daisyl]

Just to clarify - as I am sure you will expect me to!

I do not administer and prescribe prescription drugs (including botox), because I BELIEVE it to be safe. IE based on my opinion!

Any practitioner would indeed be struck off! I mean seriously, do you really think this is just because of my belief!!!!!!!

So - I administer and prescribe drugs which are licensed for purpose and which are approved by the MHRA. Now - that is not my opinion.

Botox is a prescription drug and as such is prescribed based on safe practice and research - not just because some of us may believe it to be so and hope for the best!

Mike - you're quite right! No armageddon here. X

 

[daisyl]

Yes please, I'll bring the Jaffa Cakes!

Now, I'm keeping well out of this but to go back to the original post, I am currently in the middle of reading an article in the Guild News about IPL treatments for wrinkles (amongst many other things) and the 'before & after' pic's along with all the garb is an interesting read. I have no experience of this as a treatment but am very interested in getting myself resurfaced so at the risk of setting something off does anyone have any info on this?

Many thanks

IPL tx can be effective in reducing superficial wrinkles. A peel would also be effective - depending upon the type and depth of peel and the overall expectations. There are numerous peels of varying strengths out there - a medium depth medical grade peel is really what is needed for wrinkles.

There are no instant results regarding skin - and can be unpredictable to treat. Results are often noticeable after about 6/8 weeks following commencement of treatments, due to the life cycle of the skin. You need to treat at dermal level, epidermal level is too superficial for longer term benefits.

 

[Sharkster]

Thank you,

The reason I am more interested in the IPL to treat wrinkles over Botox is that I am also looking at having my chloasma and rosacea treated at the same time and IPL seems to be effective in treating all my gripes albeit in seperate sessions?

My wrinkles are very superficial (vvv lucky considering I'm pushing 40) so I thought this could be a good route?

 

[daisyl]

Thank you,

The reason I am more interested in the IPL to treat wrinkles over Botox is that I am also looking at having my chloasma and rosacea treated at the same time and IPL seems to be effective in treating all my gripes albeit in seperate sessions?

My wrinkles are very superficial (vvv lucky considering I'm pushing 40) so I thought this could be a good route?

seperate sessions is a must. You have to think longer term - over a course. Often results are only noticeable after the course is complete in the case of IPL. Have you applied any prescriptive pigment suppressant creams for chloasma. Will not cure - but can certainly prevent worsening. Avoid hydroquinone based creams though. The problem with skin therapies if often people expect quick results and give up before really having time to make an impact. Expectations need to be realistic also. Perfection is not the aim. As I am sure you will appreciate. Believe me - one of the most important aspects of my job is managing expectations. Go and see a reputable specialist. Hope that helps.

 

[John Lewis]

"hydroquinone" ?? has been banned in the European Community for the last 6 years.
A course of IPL combined with Microdermabrasion, followed by a dose of glycolic based homecare should do the trick.

 

[daisyl]

"hydroquinone" ?? has been banned in the European Community for the last 6 years.
A course of IPL combined with Microdermabrasion, followed by a dose of glycolic based homecare should do the trick.

WHICH IS WHY I SAID AVOID THEM! they are still out there though! Home based glycolic will not be adequate - really.

 

[John Lewis]

"thats why i said avoid them" !! can only get them under the counter in black skin clinics imported illegaly.

Glycolic administered in clinic up to 70% buffered is a miracle, and microdermabrasion is understated.....

 

[John Lewis]

if anyone is really interested in a botox alternative, i.e. anti wrinkle anti ageing.... radio frequency or RF.

works facially and for specific body areas.

working with rf and laser/ipl for the last 15 years, i recon i kinda know what i'm talkin about

 

[daisyl]

70% glycolic is not home based! Medical Microdermabrasion I am well aware of - I perform it! Hydroquinone is available online. My advise was well intended. ... why do you suggest my advice is dangerous?

 

[John Lewis]

my advice to you is the same i would give to anyone who came to my clinic with your approach.... get out more !!

stop trying to push your limited knowledge onto people here who are just askin simple questions, not needing complex answers.

have a nice day xx

 

[John Lewis]

Hiya Mike, not being aggressive, just being matter of fact. Life coaching should cover that.

Just a little bored of seeing people on here trying to sway peoples opinions with what they know .... or push apinions with big words and essays. as i said earlier, a little knowledge is v v dangerous, especially when on this thread people are talking about botox and brain damage, or people talkin about products no longer available or indeed legal in the EU.

It would seem some people try to look big when actually they are so small they can only be seen and impress people here....

I come here to see what is happening in the minds of therapists... i see everyday what is happening in real life in my clinic... they don't always marry together......

welcome to my world !!

Cheers Mike ....

 

[mikem]

Hiya Mike, not being aggressive, just being matter of fact. Life coaching should cover that.

Just a little bored of seeing people on here trying to sway peoples opinions with what they know .... or push apinions with big words and essays. as i said earlier, a little knowledge is v v dangerous, especially when on this thread people are talking about botox and brain damage, or people talkin about products no longer available or indeed legal in the EU.

It would seem some people try to look big when actually they are so small they can only be seen and impress people here....

I come here to see what is happening in the minds of therapists... i see everyday what is happening in real life in my clinic... they don't always marry together......

welcome to my world !!

Cheers Mike ....

What is matter of fact for some can be aggressive to others. The intent of your posts was pretty consistent and you've used this one to reinforce it.

I've seen too many 'exchanges' like this result in people stopping posting. You are articulate enough to make your point without personalising things and it would be good if you chose to do that.

Mike

 

[Bagpuss]

Please do stick to the topic....post in a constructive manner....send posts aimed at 1 person by pm....and don't get into personal remarks....Thank you

 

[Exquisite Touch]

Fena, the prices you will not find on their web. They only supply to medical professionals through clinics. They will be able to provide you with details of your nearest clinic/MediSpa though. Hope that helps.

I stock theraderm and the 2 week miracle cure La aesthetics supply me, I am a nail tech/beauty therapist and came into contact with them when the lady who did my chemical peel lied to me about the results I would get. Fabulous company with a lot of caring supporting reps who go out of there way to help you

 

[VikkiBP]

I totally sympathise, I've been in your position for the last 2 years and tried all kinds of salon creams, (didn't even look at the high st ones). My face is fine when it doesn't move but I laugh alot and I became to get very self conscious and I hate to say a little ashamed of the lines under my eyes. I did try botox 3 years ago which lasted a good 5 months but obviously my eye lines weren't as prominent then. Don't mind so much the odd wrinkle on my forehead as I have a fringe. I must've spent more on creams, serums etc than the cost of a little botox, so I took the plunge again and had some botox last Tuesday and to me the difference is amazing, I work predominantly with men and told some of them what I was going to do and they thought I was nuts. I might only be talking about a few lines, I do have pretty good skin, but it made the world of difference to me. I can only speak for myself and for me no cream, serum, oil can replicate the effects of botox. I speak as a non professional, just a woman. I guess at the end of the day it depends how much your lines bother you.

x

 

[Martin Duffy]

I think an issue that also has to be dealt with here also is whether it is just our wrinkles that age us. I treat women of varying ages (13 to those in their 80's) and have come to find it's not so much wrinkles that age a skin but the actual skin condition. I have young clients with dry flakey skin and diffused redness who look a lot older than some of my older clients who have wrinkles but fresh radiant skin. Whilst botox may be fantastic for wrinkles & far better than creams in results, wrinkle reduction is not the whole answer to a youthful looking skin!!

 

[pure]

I think an issue that also has to be dealt with here also is whether it is just our wrinkles that age us. I treat women of varying ages (13 to those in their 80's) and have come to find it's not so much wrinkles that age a skin but the actual skin condition. I have young clients with dry flakey skin and diffused redness who look a lot older than some of my older clients who have wrinkles but fresh radiant skin. Whilst botox may be fantastic for wrinkles & far better than creams in results, wrinkle reduction is not the whole answer to a youthful looking skin!!

Martin that is SO true!!!!

Wrinkles are not the only thing that matters with skin, or what ages us. And whether Botox is safe or not (not getting into that arguement! ) it certainly isn;t the only anti aging option for clients. If it were, then all of us who don't offer it might as well pack up shop and go home!