Disillusioned with the state of the Nail Industry? - here's one for us ALL to debate!

[sugar06]

what a juicy thread! i luv a good debate.....

im a newbie to nails and im doing a home course with EN as it fits in with work, and it suits me finacialy! i would luv to be able to afford to train with creative or some other reputable company but simply cant aford it and dont have the chance to take time off really.

my opinion- im not botherd what other people do in there training!:green: i think if you like doing nails and you are confident in your work then you dont have to grumble.
about these NSS ive been to 1 in the past and had a simple manicure, it was ok, apart from the lack of convo and the rough hand massage lol ! i have seen some of there work on my mates and it wasnt bad.

any way who cares ....... if your good your good and if your bad well........ make up your own ending.

 

[ValencianNails]

my opinion- im not botherd what other people do in there training!:green: i think if you like doing nails and you are confident in your work then you dont have to grumble.
about these NSS ive been to 1 in the past and had a simple manicure, it was ok, apart from the lack of convo and the rough hand massage lol ! i have seen some of there work on my mates and it wasnt bad.

With all due respect you might not be bothered what other people do in their training but is that because you're not a 'practicing nailtech' yet?
Once you've learnt all about health and safety procedures, correct prep, ethical work practices and are using your skills to make a living then I feel positive that you'll give a damn when you're struggling to get clients and see your local NSS with a queue of clients... especially when you've got the knowledge to know that those clients are waiting to see a nail tech who doesn't give a monkey's about the health of their client's nails!

any way who cares ....... if your good your good and if your bad well........ make up your own ending.

If you're good you're good, if you're bad you're bad... it goes without saying, however, not all clients know what a good nail looks like let alone how to find a nail technician who actually knows what they're talking about!

We see a lot of new 'technicians in training' who have similar views to yours, they come and they go, it's a sad state of affairs to see such a lack of passion!

 

[oey]

what a juicy thread! i luv a good debate.....

im a newbie to nails and im doing a home course with EN as it fits in with work, and it suits me finacialy! i would luv to be able to afford to train with creative or some other reputable company but simply cant aford it and dont have the chance to take time off really.

my opinion- im not botherd what other people do in there training!:green: i think if you like doing nails and you are confident in your work then you dont have to grumble.
about these NSS ive been to 1 in the past and had a simple manicure, it was ok, apart from the lack of convo and the rough hand massage lol ! i have seen some of there work on my mates and it wasnt bad.

any way who cares ....... if your good your good and if your bad well........ make up your own ending.

Thanks for your honesty.

Although I am a little suprised at your response. I presume that you have not started to do enhancements on the public yet. When you do you will soon appreciate that in the real world it is a totally different ball game. You will realise that this type of learning isnt quite enough to get your skills from the so called good to excellent.

Believe me - I also had a shock when I started to do Beauty Treatments on clients in the real world and that was after spending a full year at college full time.

I think that saying who cares is the wrong attitude to have in this game. I feel that if you have this attitude the clients may also pick up on this and it wont be long before you clients just stop coming!

Please don't take offence at what I say - just want to help you to see how it is and to point you in the right direction.

 

[Cec]

What saddens me are those who have taken hundreds of courses, can tell me all about all the theory, all about the anathomy, about the chemistry, but can not make a decent nail...

C.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

What saddens me are those who have taken hundreds of courses, can tell me all about all the theory, all about the anathomy, about the chemistry, but can not make a decent nail...

C.

Hi Cec! Don't you think that some of the responsibility should fall on the training provider with a little honesty? Or I am asking for the impossible?!

 

[hekate01]

I feel like i had good training at college which i did for a year, the rest was up too me really as no-one is good without a variety of clients and their problems. My real learning curve happened once i worked in a salon and you have to pick it up fast!!

But i feel i studied hard to do this because i do love it, still after 5 years i can't say i can do it well as you never stop learning in my opinion.

But when i was at college when we all left i was the only one who went to work for someone esle as i wasn't confident to go alone. Everyone esle went mobile or even worse thought they could now teach 'nails' Can you beleive it?? thankfully our college wouldn't except any tutor that hadn't had 5 years experience proven, and salon ownership for 2 years also.

Sick off 17yr olds thinking they are so ace setting up salons etc straight after doing 1 or 2 sets at college!!

I refuse i drop my prices lower than £25.00 for tip/overlay to compete with NSS as i don't lower my standards. I think insurance companies need to be aware of these 'day' courses compared to year long ones.

Also i think we need to be regulated by some union or goverment thingy like most skilled trade people. :green:

 

[Sassy Hassy]

But i feel i studied hard to do this because i do love it, still after 5 years i can't say i can do it well as you never stop learning in my opinion.

But dont you think that you do do it well, only your eye has become more critical and picks up flaws that most people just can't see? I used to have this picture of a set of nails that I aspired to, I thought they were perfect. Now I see so many flaws in that set and it makes me cringe that I once held them in such high esteem.

 

[hekate01]

But dont you think that you do do it well, only your eye has become more critical and picks up flaws that most people just can't see? I used to have this picture of a set of nails that I aspired to, I thought they were perfect. Now I see so many flaws in that set and it makes me cringe that I once held them in such high esteem.

Without a doubt i'm only critical of my work because i have the skill to know when it's not quite right. When i look at the nails other people are happy with i cringe, which would of looked lovely to me 5 years ago!!

I'm critical because i want to learn better techniques of brush control nail art, pink and white's etc. I insist of giving my clients the very best i've got as they deserve it, we all know how hard money comes in and spending that sort of money they deserve pampering.

 

[portnus]

This thread sure makes the cogs go round.

I am slowly growing my business and am getting peeved with the amount of people that think if one nail tech/salon is crap then so am I!

You don'y think that about hair salons or clothes shops etc do you?
No only are us techs trying to work hard to improve our skills and earn an income but i find myself trying to justify the nail tech industry because 'well known' nail techs/salons have a bad reputation for quality & profesionalism.

It's sooo hard! I wish there was a set standard, regulation to what we should work at but who is going to set this? If we all want the same standards, respect and recognition for our skills and passion then it is up to ALL of us to get it out there and say 'I AM THE BEST!

Yeah............. whoa that felt good.

xxx

 

[izzidoll]

What saddens me are those who have taken hundreds of courses, can tell me all about all the theory, all about the anathomy, about the chemistry, but can not make a decent nail...

C.

Hi Cec! Don't you think that some of the responsibility should fall on the training provider with a little honesty? Or I am asking for the impossible?!

What would you have the training provider do in this situation?

I have had students on courses who take a little longer than most to 'click' and gain the basic skills required to put on a set of enhancements.

If I feel that they are unable to SAFELY apply a set of enhancements by the end of the course (in my case a 12 day Foundation over 6 weeks)...I will not issue them with a certificate and arrange for them to come back and have a few more days tuition on the next course...until they reach the standard required.

If someone can put on a set of enhancements..safely, and make them look good...but not great (yet)....wouldn't you advise more experience and training to get to the next level?
Would you seriously say NO, you will never be able to do this and shatter their dreams and ambitions?
If that was the case then maybe I wouldn't still be in this industry...as I was a bit of a slow starter myself.

 

[Clairet]

I do agree that some responsibility has to fall on the shoulders of the trainers.

I can only speak for courses I have taken myself.

The first course I did was a 2 day fibreglass course. Looking back, the training was not brilliant.

I was issued with a certificate and told by my trainer to go out and start making money. I knew that I was not up to scratch, which then made me pursue other courses and further my training to get myself to where I am today.

I've heard people say that they've done foundation courses and been told to get out there and charge £40 for a set of nails. Are these techs ready for this - in all honesty, the majority are probably not.

In my opinion , quite often, students are not ready start immediately on the general public, and should perhaps be encourage to practice a little first.

I'm not making wide sweeping statements about all trainers. I know some trainers who provide excellent training and give you the reality of what it is like in the nail business.

Like you said Izzy, encourage your students get experience and to come back and further their training. I, in know way, feel anyone has the right to shatter someone's ambitions and dreams.

This is the obvious difference in training standards - those trainers who encourage their students to seek constance improvement in their skills and those trainers who are in it to make a fast buck, and not really care about what standards their certificates are being issued to.

I'm just lucky to have had the experience of a trainer who encouraged me and gave me the confidence to get me to the point I'm at today.

 

[Cathie!]

I think insurance companies need to be aware of these 'day' courses compared to year long ones.

Back to the insurers again, I had a chat, not so long ago with a guy from my local H&S team, round about the time it was all over Radio 1 and we spoke about insurance and the likes of 2 day full service training courses.

As has been said by Mum just recently, a lot of the insurance policies have not been tried and tested in a court of law, and this H&S guy thought that if the policies were tested in court then not just the technician but the training provider and/or even the conduit of the training provider (ie the wholesaler or training establishment) could be brought into question for providing inadequate training. Food for thought.

 

[hekate01]

tutors should definately encourage more training like intermediate level,master class etc.. which should be displayed upon walls or pinbadges???

hopefully decent nail techs will start to flood the market then, rather than some tutors saying yeah you've passed go earn money.

Just an example i know a girl who's blind thats done aromatherapy course which she passed with flyers colours!! ( She can't see, how can she be let lose onto the public when she can't see the oils labels base oils etc....)
And in my beauty consultanty course we had a lady that couldn't read or write ( i do not want anyone to be offended as this must be awful ) but again she passed yet can not safely read product labels warnings etc....) They shouldn't pass them the same way and both would need someone esle there with them in order to be safe to carry out a treatment surely??

P.S Had to add latter one also drives...... I shudder to think what she thinks signs say or the pretty picture ones mean!!

Also i know both of these ladies very well and i love them both... They don't workon the public unless supervised.

Off my soapbox now xx:green:

 

[Snugglepuss]

Sass no wonder you have been disillusioned with the state of the Nail Industry!

I have done some quick calculations and to my shock out of the 12,313 members only 173 geeks have replied (and taking into account, some will have responded more than once, some will not bother, because it has already been said, and that some people have been inactive for a long time etc etc) the percentage of geeks who responded to your thread is 1.4 % (overall)


However, the percentage of views (3,518) works out at a staggering 28% nearly a 1/3rd of all members - again I realise that some people will have viewed the thread more than once etc etc!

So, what I am getting at, is how do we get these people on board? - the ones who would like to air their opinions but don't, so that we could work as a group to HELP implement Industry Standards and improve everyones perception (bearing in mind everybody's perception is real to them)?

Earlier today, I read a thread from a couple of years back and it appears and again forgive me if I have misunderstood, but the standards, level of training, peoples opinion of the Nail Industry has not moved on significantly - IMHO we need to be asking......

WHY HAS IT NOT CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY?​

I am not condeming anyone at all for not responding, but perhaps in this case we could just write a quick "I agree" and I think this was suggested earlier on in the thread - if wasn't - I apologise :hug:

Ok enough waffling from me and hope I have not offended anyone - love n snuggs to you all - Snugglepuss xxxx

 

[Cathie!]

I believe it's because we are a tiny percentage of the nail technicians in this country today who give more than a flying 'f' about our professionality than the money we can make by dishing out shoddy nails.

 

[Lellipop]

Sass no wonder you have been disillusioned with the state of the Nail Industry!

I have done some quick calculations and to my shock out of the 12,313 members only 173 geeks have replied (and taking into account, some will have responded more than once, some will not bother, because it has already been said, and that some people have been inactive for a long time etc etc) the percentage of geeks who responded to your thread is 1.4 % (overall)


However, the percentage of views (3,518) works out at a staggering 28% nearly a 1/3rd of all members - again I realise that some people will have viewed the thread more than once etc etc!

So, what I am getting at, is how do we get these people on board? - the ones who would like to air their opinions but don't, so that we could work as a group to HELP implement Industry Standards and improve everyones perception (bearing in mind everybody's perception is real to them)?

Earlier today, I read a thread from a couple of years back and it appears and again forgive me if I have misunderstood, but the standards, level of training, peoples opinion of the Nail Industry has not moved on significantly - IMHO we need to be asking......

WHY HAS IT NOT CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY?​

I am not condeming anyone at all for not responding, but perhaps in this case we could just write a quick "I agree" and I think this was suggested earlier on in the thread - if wasn't - I apologise :hug:

Ok enough waffling from me and hope I have not offended anyone - love n snuggs to you all - Snugglepuss xxxx

The trouble is Debs that yes although we have 12,313 member lots of these are not active posters which is a shame because the more input we can get on this kind of thread really can help for one voice to becoming a chorus when wanting to change our industry.

 

[huerta3]

Whilst I appreciate you giving an opinion on the flip side, sorry but I think your attitude is akin to the NSS. The industry has been built up by people with sounds business sense and they are there to earn a crust. They have given the industry a good reputation by keeping standards high. So what comes along, someone who sees a thriving industry and goes and destroys it - its reputation, its image, just so that they can make a few fast bucks.

You know what I would have some respect for people like you - the untrained - if you had a positive contribution to make to the industry. But you think it can all be done on the cheap - cheap products and cheap clients and cheap looking nails. Whilst I am all for an open market, why slash prices to such a ridiculous level ? Because you neither have the skill nor the inclination to do any better. You can't charge more for your shoddy work that tars the whole industry with your poor cheap standards. You prey on the igorance of the public, who like so many budding techs wouldn't know a decent enhancement if it scratched their eyes out! That's what I call pitiful ... and greedy IMO! And I make no apologies for what I say and you can all neg rep me til the cows come home!!!

Well for my opinion I don't speak for myself as I don't charge anyone since I am UNTRAINED. I just mean in general, Why does it mean that just because someone charges less than you that they are using cheap materials and are doing "shoddy" work?? What if it is soley hobby and they only charge enough to make a bit of extra spending money, or pehaps it is a second job to them, or their spouse works and they do this for extra grocery money?? When in fact say they use a quality product that charges $25 for a bottle of monomer, $15 a piece for the powders. Thats $55 and if they can do at least 20 sets of nails (most starter sets go for aroung $40 and claim there is enough product to make 25 sets) at $15 a set with that then they make $245 profit. Thats not bad for someone who doesn't use it for their sole income. Now as for my thinking resembling NSS nowhere in my statement did I say that their quality didn't matter. I think that they should use safe practices and that they should use quality products, my opinion is just that if they do and they still can AFFORD to charge less than you thats your problem not theirs.

BTW I wouldn't expect and apology a debate is just that. I wouldn't think about giving neg rep for it. I always say you never really know a person until you know their views.

 

[Snugglepuss]

I believe it's because we are a tiny percentage of the nail technicians in this country today who give more than a flying 'f' about our professionality than the money we can make by dishing out shoddy nails.

The trouble is Debs that yes although we have 12,313 member lots of these are not active posters which is a shame because the more input we can get on this kind of thread really can help for one voice to becoming a chorus when wanting to change our industry.

You are both so right - if you do not want to be bored then don't read on :lol:

geeks who have posted 10 or less = 16%

geeks who have posted 100 or less = 5%

geeks who have posted 500 or less = 2%

But what saddens me is that the posts do not all relate to nails - NOT CALCULATED any other % yet - too tired :lol:

I may do tommorrow - but yes Cathie and Lelli - I understand and agree with you both 100% :hug: :hug: :hug:

 

[Cathie!]

Well for my opinion I don't speak for myself as I don't charge anyone since I am UNTRAINED. I just mean in general, Why does it mean that just because someone charges less than you that they are using cheap materials and are doing "shoddy" work?? What if it is soley hobby and they only charge enough to make a bit of extra spending money, or pehaps it is a second job to them, or their spouse works and they do this for extra grocery money?? When in fact say they use a quality product that charges $25 for a bottle of monomer, $15 a piece for the powders. Thats $55 and if they can do at least 20 sets of nails (most starter sets go for aroung $40 and claim there is enough product to make 25 sets) at $15 a set with that then they make $245 profit. Thats not bad for someone who doesn't use it for their sole income. Now as for my thinking resembling NSS nowhere in my statement did I say that their quality didn't matter. I think that they should use safe practices and that they should use quality products, my opinion is just that if they do and they still can AFFORD to charge less than you thats your problem not theirs.

BTW I wouldn't expect and apology a debate is just that. I wouldn't think about giving neg rep for it. I always say you never really know a person until you know their views.

I think the difference here is that you are willing to learn, you are a regular poster on this site and have shown your dedication, qualified or not. Sassy didn't use the word 'shoddy' I think that was me and when I used the word 'shoddy' I meant about the technicians who don't really care about professional values in the industry, but who just bang out nails for the money....there's loads of them inBristol, I'm sure there are where you live too.

 

[Jeni Giles]

I have done some quick calculations and to my shock out of the 12,313 members only 173 geeks have replied (and taking into account, some will have responded more than once, some will not bother, because it has already been said, and that some people have been inactive for a long time etc etc) the percentage of geeks who responded to your thread is 1.4 % (overall)


However, the percentage of views (3,518) works out at a staggering 28% nearly a 1/3rd of all members - again I realise that some people will have viewed the thread more than once etc etc!

So, what I am getting at, is how do we get these people on board? - the ones who would like to air their opinions but don't, so that we could work as a group to HELP implement Industry Standards and improve everyones perception (bearing in mind everybody's perception is real to them)?

Earlier today, I read a thread from a couple of years back and it appears and again forgive me if I have misunderstood, but the standards, level of training, peoples opinion of the Nail Industry has not moved on significantly - IMHO we need to be asking......

WHY HAS IT NOT CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY?​

I am not condeming anyone at all for not responding, but perhaps in this case we could just write a quick "I agree" Snugglepuss xxxx

Here's my tuppence (two cents USD) on the WHY, change like everything takes time, when working with government entities or affecting the earning ability of a person it is even slower (a snail on Valium might move at lightening speed comparatively)

I'm not sure EXACTLY how your governing agencies work, or how many layers of bureaucracy there are to work your way through, but I do know that to change something, like issuing attendance certificates instead of a certification will take time, lots of it, as well as an enormous amount of work on all levels with the manufacturer's and the governing agencies.

Negative public opinion is even harder to change, for every 1 satisfied, educated client they may mention your services to 3 or 4 people, but 1 disgruntled client, doesn't have to be yours, will slag (hope I used that right) this industry to 20 or more people.

Negativity breeds negativity, we have to work 20 times harder to educate the public, the press and each other. I feel the frustration, I've been in the industry literally my entire life, licensing doesn't always help, just because you went to school and passed a test doesn't mean that you will do what you were taught, or really that you were taught anything to begin with.

Our government statistics for qualified people in this industry is staggering, a visit to monster or behindthechair job postings will make your eyes pop out, for every 1 qualified individual there are 6 job openings and we still have the same issues.

This topic affects us all, when we travel to educator only events, we find the same attitudes among educators. When we have guest artists in from manufacturing companies or that stop by to check out our school, they comment on the differences that they see. Educators working with the students, on the clinic floor and always available (even through lunch).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, we reap what we sow and sometimes it takes an awfully long time for our gardens to grow.