ok call me mad, but i have just made a rash decission

[MINKUS]

You should also NEVER complain about a products performance if you have not taken the time to learn how it works. If you think it's the same, then that just show how uneducated you actually are.
If you complained about my product without any product knowledge, if I had the power, I'd take the product off you. I wouldn't need an uneducated mouth badmouthing a tried and tested product.

I wish people would just own up ...................... it's them .... not the product.

.

well put !

 

[Cec]

are they related to "Poo nails" ? I think Poo nails is the system Vicky Pollard uses.

BTW Brisa is different to any other gel product .... it is unique and should be treated with a little more respect than any old Tacky gum coming out of a Gel tub (by all means take the easy path).

You should also NEVER complain about a products performance if you have not taken the time to learn how it works. If you think it's the same, then that just show how uneducated you actually are.
If you complained about my product without any product knowledge, if I had the power, I'd take the product off you. I wouldn't need an uneducated mouth badmouthing a tried and tested product.

I wish people would just own up ...................... it's them .... not the product.

Have you never heard of the saying "Only a bad tradesman blames their tools"?

Maybe it's my bad English... but I find this answer confusing... First you say that Brisa is a different system, not like all other stuff... Then you say that it's not the product, but the tech... ????? Why do we need good products then??? I find it confusing because you seem to be so very clear in both your statements....

C

 

[ValencianNails]

There will always be a few "snippy" folks that get upset because you dont favor their beloved product or opinion (An opinion is just that! an opinion.) When you have this many people,using so many different products you will have clash of the ego's or what have you.So if possible just try to take the good advice and let the snippy remarks roll off your back.You can learn a great deal from this site!
I will say that NO ONE person on here started out as a EXPERT and we all have to start out learning somewhere, and you will always be learning as long as you are in this business. You can take the biggest self proclaimed expert and IMO even they should and will still be learning...maybe they should think back to when they started out and how they felt.For all you happy,friendly,helpful, smart, great geeks out there thank you so much for all that you do,you are a gift to the world!:hug:

This is (in my opinion :wink2 being blown out of proportion, there aren't snippy folks getting upset, there aren't any clashes of ego's and as far as I can see there aren't any snippy remarks either.

Let's base it on FACTS and facts alone...

• If you are trained with a generic gel that doesn't automatically make you capable of using a top-end gel range... FACT
• If you are using a top-end gel but haven't taken the relevant product training and are having problems THEN decide to move on to another brand of gel you will still have problems... FACT
• Continuous product training and education is the way to go... FACT

There's a lot more to it than meets the eye as a lot of us are already aware.
We know that specific product education is the way to go because a lot of us have been there, done it and got the t-shirt :hug:

 

[nailzoo]

Maybe it's my bad English... but I find this answer confusing... First you say that Brisa is a different system, not like all other stuff... Then you say that it's not the product, but the tech... ????? Why do we need good products then??? I find it confusing because you seem to be so very clear in both your statements....

C

Brisa is unique in it's chemical structure (compared with other gels) ....... the product is designed to work (with training,education and understanding), therefore once you have these things, it's the technicians fault, not the products.

 

[naturalnails]

I have dipped in and out of this thread over the past few days and there seems to be lots of confusion and differences of opinion.

For example for someone in the UK to say that they cannot buy Creative (for example) without doing a conversion course to be met with someone from the US saying oh you are wrong anyone can buy Creative (for example). This is confusing because the rules and legislation are completely different - that would be like someone in the US telling someone in the UK that all cars are left hand drive.

In the UK there are no rules governing the use of nail products - we do not have to do 500 hours of training, not even 500 seconds of training - we can just walk into a wholesalers with a business card, or not as the case may be, and buy anything we want.

This is why IN THE UK some companies insist on their training. Hope that has cleared something up.

I also feel that if someone comes on here saying that they have problems with this product or that product and asking for help, if that person will not accept the help given or even go against the help given then those people offering the help may be a bit miffed when that same person comes on slating a previous product and going on to use another one.

This is not aimed at anyone in particular but just a general observation of the site in general.

There is nowhere else in the World which offers the standard of help totally FREE OF CHARGE that this site offers.l

 

[jenny2]

i am not buy any means pulling any product down.
I am not going aginst any ones advise i am merely working with what i no till things settle with creative till i can go and do some one to one training.
I have not given up on brisa, but after taking advise from some geeks am not attempting to work with the system til i have done more training.
I respect all advise given and for the last time appologise if any one feels i have offended them

 

[1999judy]

You should be very careful when proclaiming your opinions as facts,
Especially when your facts don't even hold up within your own argument.

This relates to your first 2 facts.

If someone who is trained in generic gel then tries to use a top top end product without the relevant training and has problems with that product.
Changing to another brand (a generic one) may well solve those problem seeing as they have been trained in that type of product.

The third fact is just a fairly vague statement of an opinion. To make it into anything approaching a fact you would need to at least make it clear what you mean by "the way forward".
If you mean that the only way to improve skills is through product courses, then I for one would have to disagree with your opinion, but it is difficult to argue with such an amorphous statement.

I have no problem with your or anyone else's opinions just supposed facts.

This is of course just my opinion and not fact.

So.. what courses would you advise??

 

[ValencianNails]

This is (in my opinion :wink2 being blown out of proportion, there aren't snippy folks getting upset, there aren't any clashes of ego's and as far as I can see there aren't any snippy remarks either.

Let's base it on FACTS and facts alone...

• If you are trained with a generic gel that doesn't automatically make you capable of using a top-end gel range... FACT
• If you are using a top-end gel but haven't taken the relevant product training and are having problems THEN decide to move on to another brand of gel you will still have problems... FACT
• Continuous product training and education is the way to go... FACT

There's a lot more to it than meets the eye as a lot of us are already aware.
We know that specific product education is the way to go because a lot of us have been there, done it and got the t-shirt :hug:

You should be very careful when proclaiming your opinions as facts,
Especially when your facts don't even hold up within your own argument.

This relates to your first 2 facts.

If someone who is trained in generic gel then tries to use a top top end product without the relevant training and has problems with that product.
Changing to another brand (a generic one) may well solve those problem seeing as they have been trained in that type of product.
I didn't say anyone had changed to a generic brand, I said changed to another brand.

The third fact is just a fairly vague statement of an opinion. To make it into anything approaching a fact you would need to at least make it clear what you mean by "the way forward".
I didn't mention "the way forward", I said "Continuous product training and education is the way to go", do you disagree with that statement?

If you mean that the only way to improve skills is through product courses, then I for one would have to disagree with your opinion, but it is difficult to argue with such an amorphous statement.
I don't think my statement was amorphous, continuing education and training is most definitely the way to go, otherwise we get left behind and don't improve our skills... unless of course our skills are 100% perfect in the first place, of which none of ours are.
We ALL need to continue our nail education, surely? Or do you disagree?

I have no problem with your or anyone else's opinions just supposed facts.

This is of course just my opinion and not fact.

What are your views on the original post in the thread?

 

[blossom]

Bugger I was just going to log off and go to bed and now I'm gonna have to stay up a while to read the replies on this thread :lol:

 

[MINKUS]

I won't do the quotes thing cause it'll be too confusing, but I do wish I knew how to do the red bits within the quote it's really cool.

you mean these??? red bits?

As for your first red bit you did say another product and from what I can see the product in this particular case is not "a top end product" and so presumably within the the logic of your original post, would not need the product specific training and her "generic" train would surfice.

As for your second red bit, I apologise for misquoting you but either way it comes to the same thing.

As for your third red bit we have to disagree about the vagueness of your statement but if you are suggesting that it is the only way to improve then of course I disagree.

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:grr::grr::grr::grr:

i am officially CONFUSED.COM

 

[1999judy]

I won't do the quotes thing cause it'll be too confusing, but I do wish I knew how to do the red bits within the quote it's really cool.

As for your first red bit you did say another product and from what I can see the product in this particular case is not "a top end product" and so presumably within the the logic of your original post, would not need the product specific training and her "generic" training would surfice.

As for your second red bit, I apologise for misquoting you but either way it comes to the same thing.

As for your third red bit we have to disagree about the vagueness of your statement but if you are suggesting that it is the only way to improve then of course I disagree.

It is not the ONLY way to go but what do you suggest?
A VTCT NVQ?? Come on..what else is there? WHY do you disagree???
Btw I'm thinking you're replying to Valencian nails?
I won't reply in red.
I would hate to cause any confusion.

 

[1999judy]

Thank you Judy, I'm glad you agree with me on that piont.

But unfortunately I'm enjoying the debate regarding stating things as FACTS when they are not, to muddy the waters by starting a whole new one about my opinions on training in the industry, maybe another time.

No worries.
Thankfully I've never muddied any waters so I'm ok.

 

[blossom]

WELL ARENT WE BEING NIT PICKY !!! This comment makes it sound like an argument instead of a discussion

The Facts ( as i see it )

The girl is not adhering to BASIC RULE NUMBER ONE...using the correct lamp that was DEVELOPED to be used with BRISA GEL. I have now gone back and read other threads which give me this information, but, correct me if I'm wrong, there is nothing in the original post in THIS particular thread to tell us that. And I'm sure we don't all read all the threads by the original poster before replying. So while, yes, this turns out to be a fact, it may not have been realised by many unless they went back and read the other thread.

RULE 2.....Undertaking any CREATIVE NAIL DESIGN training (including the PROPER PREPERATION OF THE NAIL PLATE)...never mind applying the product in the correct way. Of course CND training would benefit with the application of this product, but I'm sure Jenny2 has said on this thread that she has spoken with them and they said she didn't need it? So I can understand where she's coming from if that's the case. Clearly it is needed so why would she be told that it wasn't necessary?

Rule 3?..oh yeah there isnt one...... im boring my own ass off with this now !

toodles

I have noted the sarcasm in a couple of the posts in this thread. I think whatever your opinion it is good to remain polite and respectful.

 

[MINKUS]

I have noted the sarcasm in a couple of the posts in this thread. I think whatever your opinion it is good to remain polite and respectful.

i'll reply as it appears your addressing me?

I wasnt being sarcastic hence the !!!!exclamation marks!!!!!

With regards to the points you refer to in the last post ...it's seems your in agreement with me re the correct lamp being used and the 'correct training' that could do with being undertaken ( so not sure why you've 'quoted' me?)

I do tend to look back at previous threads to see WHY peeps may be having problems so i can OFFER advice. As a Brisa Master Technician if feel i maybe able to 'offer advice' to someone if they are having a problem here or there, Weather they choose to take it is up to them !

Sorry you feel this way about my posts:green:

 

[blossom]

An exclamation mark simply marks an exclamation, it doesn't mean you don't really mean what you are saying, or that it is devoid of sarcasm. Anyways. . .

Yes, defo in agreement re: training and lamp.

I still stand by what I said about being polite and respectful.


This thread makes me laugh. Whoever would have thought it would go on for so long when you look back at the original post, where basically she was just asking if anyone had heard of Pure Nails?

 

[Scratchers]

I won't do the quotes thing cause it'll be too confusing, but I do wish I knew how to do the red bits within the quote it's really cool.

As for your first red bit you did say another product and from what I can see the product in this particular case is not "a top end product" and so presumably within the the logic of your original post, would not need the product specific training and her "generic" training would surfice.

As for your second red bit, I apologise for misquoting you but either way it comes to the same thing.

As for your third red bit we have to disagree about the vagueness of your statement but if you are suggesting that it is the only way to improve then of course I disagree.

you surprise with you answers what with you being a creative tech?

Everyone that changes to any product high or low end should be encouraged to take the proper education, to learn the structure of the product how to apply it successfully and also to educate the client, if they know nothing about the product and a client asks what will they say?

We are trying to advise people on the best path possible in there career in this industry, and constantly fighting against those who are not train properly and putting the industry down.

And changing products is the easiest way out, IMO, Creative is the best there is and performs differently to any other product so if you have change from a low end to a high end product and you are treating it the same you may have problems, our advise training not giving up and changing back.

Don't forget that we live off of creative's name, i know in my area that alot of the general public are begining to recogonise that creative is a high end product and looking for a tech qualified by them using there products because they know its good.

Its all about educating people and i think this thread has gone off topic.

Jenny i realise it is hard with current situation going on right now but i do think that it is a good idea for you to stick with brisa and go and do 1-1 or conversion hun, it is entirely up to you which products you choose to use, but hope which ever it turns out sucessful for you, good luck chic xxx

 

[pure]

You know I've never done this on a thread before but please can a mod now close this one because it has become very unpleasant and reads as a slanging match that has gone of topic.

Please can we all call it quits?!!!!
​

 

[Bagpuss]

i cant believe how many different angles this thread has gone...and for what ??? to end up getting closed no doubt.

 

[Cathie!]

I believe that ideally they should be taken in conjunction with a salon based appreticeship and extensive mentoring.

If only there were a Modern Apprenticeship for nail services. I would gladly take on an apprentice and mentor him/her, but sadly we don't have this at the present time.

Taking on an apprentice from scratch and training them up to my standards....they wouldn't have a recognised qualification at the end of it and would still have to go somewhere to get a recognised qualification whether it's a VTCT, NVQ or product company cert.

Shame really because it could work in the right salons.

 

[jenny2]

omg, i can not beleive some of the responces on this thread, they are unbeleivable.

I am a qualified beauty therapists to level 3 vctc, aromatherapist, body massage and nail tech. I am also trained with decleor. I have worked with the basic line of products in acrylic, silk and gel which are used in college for training purposes.

I purchased brisa which if you are a master you will no that you get a video from creative, which creative say all nail teck with vctc qualifications need unless they are having a particular problem with the system then they recommend a one to one.

When i bought the product, ellisons had no brisa lamps in stock, i asked them if this system would work with anouther lamp with the same watage and they said yes. BUT OBVIOUSLY I FOUND THIS NOT TO BE THE CASE!

But hey that was alos my fault for not looking into it more,
Also the gel has been setting not adhering to the nail plate due to to much prep of the nail.

The product i am working with know has pleased my clients looks fantastic and is doing its job. I trained with these sorts of systems and as i have regular clients, and a family to support i will contineue to provide the best quality service i can.

I have taken all advise by many respected geeks on this site who have been very respectfull and help full to me. Because of the advice given 'the girl' as you speak has decided to work with what she nows untill things are back to normal with breative ie the courses taken plase and such like, so i can train more with this particular system.

Some of the comments on here have been under hand, disrespectfull and un called for, i for one should not have to explain myself because i am waiting for training and asked what you guys thought of pure nails..:irked:

Can i also say thank you to the guys on here who have posted some very nice posts and who have retained the dignity of this forum being proffesional:hug: