Unsafe and Unsound and Utter Rubbish

[2littletoys]

hi- I'm new and currently training in l&p and gel. having read some of the posts with the "great" advice and then geeg's' reply has really helped me understand certain practises therefore think you highlighting this shoddy advice only helps us learner newbies! thanks to all you genuine techs out there!:Love:

 

[adelekeegan1]

I'm a not so new tech (in more ways than one) and am very disturbed at some of the 'remedies' that are being posted on this site at the moment.

What disturbs me, almost more, is the attitude that goes with some of these posts.

I am more than happy to assist anyone who needs genuine help but am puzzled, to say the least, at the offensive, aggressive, attitude offered by some.

There are some 'greats' on this site who offer their skills and time freely, there are skilled technicians who do the same, and there are those like me who offer their best - we all try to help.

Like Gigi I question what is happening. I am happy to help anyone where I can, it is a privilege to educate but you cannot teach those who do not want to learn - or more to the point, have their own agenda

 

[MINKUS]

perhaps a big neon flashing crappiola alert could be added where necessary:green:

OH SAM ! i quite like the idea of getting 'macdonald' style gold stars.....can we, can we:green::green:

Am i going bonkers (quite probably) or did we used to have stars? before the 'bar' ?


amb x

 

[Lellipop]

am i going bonkers (quite probably) or did we used to have stars? before the 'bar' ?

Your bonkers lmao No I think we did actually:lol:

 

[Susie H]

yep, there have been a few that have had me shaking my head and a couple that have made me wince, and I think the aggressive attitude is because they are so closed minded that the moment anyone questions their practices they get completely defensive, what a shame they can't spend time reading, learning and even pm ing peeps who know more then they do.

Personally I love reading about new stuff, trying it out on 'Thing' or daughter if she's home, and asking any geek who'll give me their time, its what our site is all about.

But when you have something special, there are always going to be those who don't want to be a part of it, they just want to try and spoil it.
How sad are they?

 

[kitkat68]

Geeg, Let me start out by saying that I am very happy to have found this forum both for research with the wealth of information on this site, and also that I can ask a question if I have it. I also agree that I have seen a few things on here that make my head spin. :Scared:

I am just responding to this thread from the tension that I have felt in the past week with a few threads that I think may be bothering you. I have found though, on this site (not you in particular), that when someone doesn't agree with views on things, then you are immediately shot down as if you are "unprofessional" or completely wrong in your procedure. Don't get me wrong, I love hearing views on things and different procedures! I also accept corrective critisism if it is given in a nice manner, as I am contantly trying to learn as much about what I do as possible. However just because everyone does not agree on every subject does not make either party right or wrong in some instances.

For instance, I have purchased almost each and every Tammy Taylor instructional video available. She does teach us to etch the nail with a 100 grit file. As a matter of fact, her updated videos on her website teach this as well. So the answer to your question "Are there any professionals out there who would do these things?" Yes, Tammy Taylor.

I was basically just doing what I was taught by a Nail Tech who has been doing nails for years and has her own very successful industry. Has anyone ever contacted Tammy Taylor with their concerns regarding the 100 grit etch, or are we just assuming that her product is crap because she says it won't adhere to the nail without it? TT products are hardly crap or MMA nails. I have no doubt that if Tammy Taylor products were as available to nail techs as Creative is (being in every beauty supply store), that it would be just as successful, used and well known. I have read previous posts of other TT users who etch the nail with 180 which I have definitely begun to do since I tend to agree with you on this subject (and the results will be in when my clients come in for a fill lol).

Perhaps we should consider the source of why some nail techs do things different ways...possibly because they were trained that way? That being said, if time goes by and different techniques are used and found to be healthier for our clients, then by all means, share, because we must all keep on top of our industry and learn from each other on the best meathods and practices because lets face it, there is obviously some shoddy training out there. I personally had no idea that 100 grit wasn't to be used on the natural nail because I was just doing what I was taught.

Another thing that I think is bothering you Geeg is the fact that some of us choose to make our own cuticle oil. I know that you are a representative of Creative and that you are an advocate of Solar Oil and that's great, it's a very good blend. I think you are one of the best mentors on this site and I read your tutorials frequently. I am very thankful for all of the information you have posted and hope you continue to do so. :hug: With all due respect, I personally cannot afford to pay over $20.00 for a 4 oz bottle of Solar Oil, nor do I want to.

I have purchased 100% pure Jojoba oil, Sweet Almond oil, Rice Bran oil, Vitamin E and Tea Tree oil and have made my own cuticle oil which I plan to use at my station... and I can make two or three times as much for the same price. I am not planning on selling it for retail, but don't knock those that do. I personally don't see anything wrong in doing this since I am using the same ingredients, and they are all pure and natural.

I know that you may not agree with me but I don't believe that makes me wrong or unprofessional. I will also be the first one to admit to you that I should have listened to your advice if I find I have problems with my nails after using my home made oil. I honestly hope that I worded this in a way that does not offend you, as that is not my intention. I really think you are an asset to Nail Techs everywhere. Thanks again, Kat

 

[geeg]

Normally responding to a specific individual I would send a Private Message as those are the site rules, but as KitKat has made this post personal to moi and on the main forum then I will respond here on the site.

It may interest you to know, Kat, that I agree with everything you say in your post. And you have written it beautifully and no one could possibly take offence to it ... certainly not me, so thank you for that.

As I think most people know, the products mentioned in your post are a GENERIC product line. The products are not manufactured by TT but purchased and branded. No one is saying they are bad products but just ordinary, no advanced technology there, middle of the road type products that have seen some success largely because of TT herself. With Generic products it is necessary to be a bit more aggressive to the natural nail plate in order for the product to adhere, because they are not technically advanced. I think with brands that are generic no one wants to take any chances and wants to ensure the minimum of lifting for those who use it, so they advocate harsh methods to ensure this. If THAT is what a person is taught then of course that is all they know.

Many things are really not a matter of different opinions and someone not being in agreement!! You don't disagree with facts. Things that are FACT, are proved and are not really open to debate. When FACTS are presented on this site, it is the chance to learn more and maybe change your choices of how you want to work. I always say the 'cream' always rises to the top in the end and it is the same with great nail technicians; they are hungry and want to learn and have a desire to care for their clients welfare.

A 100 grit file damages the natural nail plate no matter how gently one thinks one is using it. This has been proved .. there are photos to prove it taken under laboratory conditions .. it is a fact. If it suits an individual to take no notice of that fact, then it tells me allot about that individual. Those that take notice and learn from it, make the necessary changes.

As to the making-your-own-cuticle-oil thing. I have always stated my opinion and the reasons why I have my opinion. I have never ever said not to do it or that it was a bad thing to do. All I have said is that personally I would never be bothered to do it as it would cost me more in my time to make it than to buy it. I would never spend my free time doing this and I do not believe I have ever 'knocked' anyone else for doing it. I have merely pointed out that if you add up the real cost of making cuticle oil yourself, it turns out not to be as cheap as people think and you do not save as much as you think you do. The money any busy nail technician would make in the salon would more then pay for a bottle of Solar Oil and they would have their free time to spend in any way they want. So please do not get me wrong. I was speaking a a nail technician and not a representative of CND. I choose to use CND products like thousands of other nail technicians. I do not officially represent CND.

My style is 'straight from the hip' and no nonsense, I know that; but that does not mean that all my opinions are FACT, they are just my educated/expert opinion based on considerable experience and I am not forcing them on anyone. But when I present proved facts, they are not my opinion, they are facts. Usually a case is closed once the facts are presented. One learns from it ... or one doesn't.

I thank you for all your comments and I appreciate and value all of them. :hug:

 

[PeepPaws]

There's a nail tech about 2 miles up the road from where I work in the salon. She's been a nail tech for years longer than me. But, I have had 3 of her ladies try me and and stay with me because of how she works. Snaps the old nails off with clippers!!!!
Doesn't chat,,,, in and out so fast. That tel's me I am doing something right!!
I will stick with what I am taught and thats it!!!

 

[adelekeegan1]

Back to the 100 grit abrasive

I was taught to use 240 grit only, on or near the natural nail AND WHY

At the start I was amazed at the number of different abrasives in my kit because I knew nothing about different grits and their uses. This was all explained in my foundation course.

Many new people who have not yet trained or had very poor training may be as uneducated as I was at the start of my career. They may economise or think it is just easier to work with one or two abarasives and apply them 'gently'. This forum is, as Sam pointed out the place to educate them and that is what so many endeavour to do.

Surely if your system demands that you use 100 grit on the nail plate the sensible thing is to question your system NOT internationally reknowned educators who have THE FACTS, regardless of the system they use.

 

[angel fingers]

i have never understood why the tammy taylor system does advocate the use of the 100 grit file on the natural nail.

i used tt for quite a while but always used a much finer abrasive on the nail plate to simply remove the shine and i never had any problems with it lifting.

i dont know why they stick with that theory, maybe they just dont want to be seen to be doing a u turn.

 

[chantell simone]

I think that in any profession there will always be cowboys but that is how the true professional will stand out

a 100 grit file on a the natural nail will always be a no no to me

i consider myself to be a fairly new tech as i only qualified in July 2006, whilst my training was good I know that I still have a long way to go.

 

[CurlyQs]

Just referring to KitKat68's post and Geeg's response, I have to say that despite all the "crappola" it is very refreshing to see ideas put forth and responded to so thoughtfully, respectfully and constructively.
Restores my faith....

KitKat's post shows that some seemingly ridiculous threads do have learning benefits even thought 100 grit and natural nail in one sentence makes us cringe!

 

[Deborino]

Hi, this is only a suggestion and don't know how practical or beneficial it is and I am also new to the site so hope I don't get shot down in flames (only joking) but here goes anyway:-

Is there any mileage in adding more details to 'geek commandment number 19' - thou shalt not give pseudo professional advice and base it purely on the nail aspect of the site. For instance. I shall not ever suggest or recommend anyone to use monomer without polymer. I shall never suggest or recommend anyone use a harsher abrasive on natural nails than a 240 grit file.etc,etc,etc.

This way anyone joining the site who is either self taught or has not had very good training might pick up these points when first joining and can then constructively question what they are doing/ or have been taught and seek to rectify rather than advise others to do it.

Would it then be going too far to chuck them in a 'sin bin' for being naughty! The sin bin could then hold (CLEARLY MARKED )incorrect information that a new person (or anyone) could then read through and use as an educational tool. As it has been said before we can sometimes learn from incorrect information .Speaking from my own way of learning I usually retain the information better if it is something that has been drummed into me that I SHOULD NOT DO, (hope you know what I mean)

 

[angel fingers]

Hi, this is only a suggestion and don't know how practical or beneficial it is and I am also new to the site so hope I don't get shot down in flames (only joking) but here goes anyway:-

Is there any mileage in adding more details to 'geek commandment number 19' - thou shalt not give pseudo professional advice and base it purely on the nail aspect of the site. For instance. I shall not ever suggest or recommend anyone to use monomer without polymer. I shall never suggest or recommend anyone use a harsher abrasive on natural nails than a 240 grit file.etc,etc,etc.

This way anyone joining the site who is either self taught or has not had very good training might pick up these points when first joining and can then constructively question what they are doing/ or have been taught and seek to rectify rather than advise others to do it.

Would it then be going too far to chuck them in a 'sin bin' for being naughty! The sin bin could then hold (CLEARLY MARKED )incorrect information that a new person (or anyone) could then read through and use as an educational tool. As it has been said before we can sometimes learn from incorrect information .Speaking from my own way of learning I usually retain the information better if it is something that has been drummed into me that I SHOULD NOT DO, (hope you know what I mean)

i see your point, but it would be a difficult job to decide on whos professional advice is the one to go by. i say this because different [equally well thought of companies] have different guidelines for their techs.

isnt this an interesting discussion , good thread.

 

[Deborino]

Hi, just to clarify I was thinking more along the lines of guidelines set out and approved by the Grand Master himself along with Geeg and the other top profs on the site - surely everyone could rely on their advice!! I didn't mean things that just anyone could post, or add their two pennies worth to, it would have to be advice sanctioned by the top based on FACT.

 

[geeg]

I think with the reporting system we have and the infraction system, it is possible to be alerted to 'bad' posts so they can be moderated quite quickly. It works very well ... bravo, GMG!!

I agree that a bad post gives us all a chance to educate the facts so that it helps to reinforce the knowledge to new ones many times over.

Some may say, "Oh it's the same old thing again and again," but that is what a teacher does . A true teacher does not get tired of explaining the same thing over and over again ... because our job is to see that the student 'gets it' and to inspire a thirst for more knowledge!!

I think that all those who care on this site do that very well! Hats off to you all.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Deborino.

 

[stoney]

Have read this thread from start to finish, several times actually, and would just like to add this..

It seems to me that there appears to be an extremely fine line between giving someone your opinion and giving someone advise.

I sat the other night and watched a 'professional' ADVISE a fairly new geek, how to make their own cuticle oil and TELL them not to buy a certain file because you could buy them cheaper elsewhere without a Logo, .... because, 'we are all out to make money', well I'm sorry but that is her OPINION! and extremely unprofessional in my OPINION.

I advertise myself as an NSI technician, and have an NSI logo sticker in my salon window, I have done ALL my training with NSI, and use only their products (including files and cuticle oil). It is what my clients expect, and they feel safe, knowing that I am trained to use the products, and that I do not let my standards drop for the sake of a few pennies.

I very rarely give advise, and have been corrected when I do. I'm not sure what my level of professionalism would be compared to others, so I keep quiet now, unless i know the FACTS.

 

[geeg]

Have read this thread from start to finish, several times actually, and would just like to add this..

It seems to me that there appears to be an extremely fine line between giving someone your opinion and giving someone advise.

I sat the other night and watched a professional ADVISE a fairly new geek, how to make their own cuticle oil and TELL them not to buy a certain file because you could buy them cheaper elsewhere ....because, 'we are all out to make money', well I'm sorry but that is her OPINION! and extremely unprofessional in my OPINION.

I advertise myself as an NSI technician, and have an NSI logo sticker in my salon window, I have done ALL my training with NSI, and use only their products (including files and cuticle oil). It is what my clients expect, and they feel safe, knowing that I am trained to use the products, and that I do not let my standards drop for the sake of a few pennies.

I very rarely give advise, and have been corrected when I do. I'm not sure what my level of professionalism would be compared to others, so I keep quiet now, unless i know the FACTS.

I do not think you should keep quiet about anything really.

I think you should preface your comments , as i DO, by saying MY OPINION IS or I THINK, or MY ADVISE TO YOU IS ... and then we all know where we stand.

Personally, if I state a FACT, then I give the reasoning behind the proof of that fact. I never just say, this is the way it is because I say so.

Not sure that the technicians advise had anything to do with professionalism at all and I see no problem with that as she was giving her opinion, which she is entitled to.

I like you prefer to brand my salon as a Creative/CND salon. But there are many techs who use a mixture of products for whatever reason and it does not (in my opinion) make them unprofessional.

I think many people misuse the word professional and unprofessional and it is enlightening to look up the word in the dictionary.

 

[sharon h]

I agree with having a seperate page for the professional techs who has say practised for 10 years and know the industry well. they would only be able to write info on the page to help us new techs. I am new to nails and am always looking for new info and support, from you guys. this forum is great for us new ones but we do not always know if the info is correct as the tutor can not tell us everything when we do the courses, so we learn the basics as I call it then we are on our own. so hopefully this forum will select afew fab techs to keep us newbees on track.

 

[Bagpuss]

I personally wouldn't want separate pages for nail/salon professionals based on number of years service....10 years being a great nail tech can also be 10 years being a bad nail tech.

I remember watching a lady at a show once going on and on about how she had been in the industry for over 20 years and there was nothing she didn't know about nails....you should have seen her work !!!...she scratched the nail plate up...she splashed monomer about like champagne and the finished result was pants.

I personally think it takes more than the number of years you have been doing nails and more about how long you have been doing nails well.