aliceellen1974
Well-Known Member
I think sometimes we can all "hide" behind our computers and say things maybe we wouldnt always say in "real" life x
Its not what you say, its how you say it.
- Thread starter drew692
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There is a myth about communication that I have heard quoted many times and have quoted myself many times before I knew better that:
55% of communication is body language
38% of communication is tonality
7% is the words.
These are the results of a study done in the 60s taken badly out of context. if it were true we would all be able to communicate face to face with people exceptionally well independent of language spoken - which is not the case.
But body language and tonality play a huge part in setting one's stall out in terms of intention and meaning and that is lost in writing.
What is also lost (which disappoints me) is that some people seem to lose their manners and write stuff they they would never dream of saying to someones face. I've had a lot of this over they years in my day job and when challenged these people tend to curl up and say 'did I forget the smiley - only joking.....' or something similar.
I have always found the face to face test a sound barometer in electronic communication - would I say this to the person if they were standing in front of me ? If I would I'll write it, if I wouldn't I'll change it.
A lot of people find a purely factual statement very cold whereas it usually means that it was written quickly. I have suffered from that in the past.
We have the magic of smilies to help convey intent and this has added an interesting nuance to 'reading' intent. One of the things I look for in communication is congruence (all outputs of the person working in the same way) so that their body language, tonality and words support each other. With a post you can look for congruence in words and smilies. If someone is calling you a pillock but wraps you in hugs, you can spot the incongruence.
What works the best is when the reader has a good understanding of the intention of the writer and reads the words with that intent as the context. When that happens you can drop the smilies and drop the niceties and just be factual and it works.
In my short time on this forum i have had a mixed reception. There are good examples on here of where people have understood the intention behind my posts and others where they have been completely missed and my posts are looked at through a 'negative filter'. This post will have the same effect and no amount of hugs, smilies, statement of intent or anything else will change how individuals will receive the message.
Remember that as humans the only way we can handle all the info that hits us every second is by filtering it, which means we all have a unique map of the world that is seen through our filters (smell is the only exception). It always amazes me if two people agree on anything.
My best advice for posting is:
1. Only write something that you would say to the persons face or the group if you were in the room with them
2. Make sure the thread title tells everyone what the post is about (Grrrr - personal bug bear everytime I see the 'I need help' threads - yes you need help in creatinga useful title to your thread so that I can choose to read it or not)
3. Stick to the facts rather than the emotion, perception etc
4. Assume all posts have a positive intention and do your very best to read it in a positive light.
5. Avoid overlaying your values onto the post (well if I'd have written that I'd have meant......) - you didn't write it and the person who did is not you.
On a positive note (this is a generalisation but works most of the time), when someone responds to a post and interprets what you said in a certain way, they are telling you a lot about themselves so it is a fantastic way of starting to understand other people and how they think.
I find all this stuff fascinating.
Please feel free to add your own filtering to this message and hopefully what gets through to you will have some value and be of some help.
Regards
Mike
55% of communication is body language
38% of communication is tonality
7% is the words.
These are the results of a study done in the 60s taken badly out of context. if it were true we would all be able to communicate face to face with people exceptionally well independent of language spoken - which is not the case.
But body language and tonality play a huge part in setting one's stall out in terms of intention and meaning and that is lost in writing.
What is also lost (which disappoints me) is that some people seem to lose their manners and write stuff they they would never dream of saying to someones face. I've had a lot of this over they years in my day job and when challenged these people tend to curl up and say 'did I forget the smiley - only joking.....' or something similar.
I have always found the face to face test a sound barometer in electronic communication - would I say this to the person if they were standing in front of me ? If I would I'll write it, if I wouldn't I'll change it.
A lot of people find a purely factual statement very cold whereas it usually means that it was written quickly. I have suffered from that in the past.
We have the magic of smilies to help convey intent and this has added an interesting nuance to 'reading' intent. One of the things I look for in communication is congruence (all outputs of the person working in the same way) so that their body language, tonality and words support each other. With a post you can look for congruence in words and smilies. If someone is calling you a pillock but wraps you in hugs, you can spot the incongruence.
What works the best is when the reader has a good understanding of the intention of the writer and reads the words with that intent as the context. When that happens you can drop the smilies and drop the niceties and just be factual and it works.
In my short time on this forum i have had a mixed reception. There are good examples on here of where people have understood the intention behind my posts and others where they have been completely missed and my posts are looked at through a 'negative filter'. This post will have the same effect and no amount of hugs, smilies, statement of intent or anything else will change how individuals will receive the message.
Remember that as humans the only way we can handle all the info that hits us every second is by filtering it, which means we all have a unique map of the world that is seen through our filters (smell is the only exception). It always amazes me if two people agree on anything.
My best advice for posting is:
1. Only write something that you would say to the persons face or the group if you were in the room with them
2. Make sure the thread title tells everyone what the post is about (Grrrr - personal bug bear everytime I see the 'I need help' threads - yes you need help in creatinga useful title to your thread so that I can choose to read it or not)
3. Stick to the facts rather than the emotion, perception etc
4. Assume all posts have a positive intention and do your very best to read it in a positive light.
5. Avoid overlaying your values onto the post (well if I'd have written that I'd have meant......) - you didn't write it and the person who did is not you.
On a positive note (this is a generalisation but works most of the time), when someone responds to a post and interprets what you said in a certain way, they are telling you a lot about themselves so it is a fantastic way of starting to understand other people and how they think.
I find all this stuff fascinating.
Please feel free to add your own filtering to this message and hopefully what gets through to you will have some value and be of some help.
Regards
Mike
Lellipop
Lelli Loo Loo
Fab post Mike and you covered everything in it :hug:
Nailsinlondon1
Well-Known Member
It is very hard at time to hit the right "tone" when posting. But more important, is the readers frame of mind that also comes into play....
Now a simple no frills post, giving out facts and no frills, can be seen by someone who is having a fab day as just the ticket. But someone who has had a bad day, lousy time, nothing is going right may think, well that a bit short and even harsh.
The poster doesn't know what sort of day you are having, or if you are feeling a bit sensitive. Hey he/she is just giving out facts.
I 100% agree, a post should never be used as a sling shot tool, cheap shots are a no no.....keep it simple, keep it factual, keep it real, keep it on track and most pf all keep it polite......and yes the smilies do help....
back to my Voddy and Orange guys xxxxx Happy posting xxxxx
Now a simple no frills post, giving out facts and no frills, can be seen by someone who is having a fab day as just the ticket. But someone who has had a bad day, lousy time, nothing is going right may think, well that a bit short and even harsh.
The poster doesn't know what sort of day you are having, or if you are feeling a bit sensitive. Hey he/she is just giving out facts.
I 100% agree, a post should never be used as a sling shot tool, cheap shots are a no no.....keep it simple, keep it factual, keep it real, keep it on track and most pf all keep it polite......and yes the smilies do help....
back to my Voddy and Orange guys xxxxx Happy posting xxxxx
blossom
Well-Known Member
Maybe true for some.
But I make sure I don't post anything that I wouldn't actually say to someone's face.
:hug: :hug:
I agree, a little careful re-reading of your post may be all that's needed.
I think it depends on the mood of the reader at the time also.:irked:
No doubt I have been known to be blunt.
Sugar coating the word "NO" can be difficult..
It's getting to the point where I am almost afraid to answer some questions without prior apology.
I have never been for one using the words pet, luv, dear, flower, sweety etc as sometimes this can be read as being condescending also ..... Maybe not, but it depends on the reader.
I also don't like to seem familiar with someone that I am not familiar with.
Many peeps in here use the emoticons to express their feelings and also often add the IMO.
I'm sure once you have been on the site a little longer you will understand where people are coming from.
Have a lovely day:hug:
No doubt I have been known to be blunt.
Sugar coating the word "NO" can be difficult..
It's getting to the point where I am almost afraid to answer some questions without prior apology.
I have never been for one using the words pet, luv, dear, flower, sweety etc as sometimes this can be read as being condescending also ..... Maybe not, but it depends on the reader.
I also don't like to seem familiar with someone that I am not familiar with.
Many peeps in here use the emoticons to express their feelings and also often add the IMO.
I'm sure once you have been on the site a little longer you will understand where people are coming from.
Have a lovely day:hug:
*JOANNE*
Well-Known Member
I agree with Carl on this one,
depending what mood your in, what day your having depends on how you read things....
Sometimes someones reply will be perfectly acceptable in terms of attitude yet maybe 1% of the readers will be having a bad day and will read it in a totally different way that is intended, causing the poor person who wrote the "sentence or thread" to wonder what the hell they have done to upset a very small percentage of people...............leaving the author gutted to think that they have upset someone, when in reality that upset reader is having a mood on.
people have to not take things so personally and stop thinking or reading into things and thinking its directly aimed at them...when it isnt.
chill if you think things are aimed at you, or you dont agree with "the wording or attitude" coming across in a thread...pm them......and you will probably find a) the author is mortified to think they caused offence or b) you just gripped their s**t pmsl :lol:
and if its the latter...hey then they may be having a bad day too
peeps have to stop psychoanalysing threads and replies so much :hug:
see added :hug: and :lol: all is good
depending what mood your in, what day your having depends on how you read things....
Sometimes someones reply will be perfectly acceptable in terms of attitude yet maybe 1% of the readers will be having a bad day and will read it in a totally different way that is intended, causing the poor person who wrote the "sentence or thread" to wonder what the hell they have done to upset a very small percentage of people...............leaving the author gutted to think that they have upset someone, when in reality that upset reader is having a mood on.
people have to not take things so personally and stop thinking or reading into things and thinking its directly aimed at them...when it isnt.
chill if you think things are aimed at you, or you dont agree with "the wording or attitude" coming across in a thread...pm them......and you will probably find a) the author is mortified to think they caused offence or b) you just gripped their s**t pmsl :lol:
and if its the latter...hey then they may be having a bad day too
peeps have to stop psychoanalysing threads and replies so much :hug:
see added :hug: and :lol: all is good
Lellipop
Lelli Loo Loo
Joanne isnt it funny how many times this topic comes up on here I suppose we have just been here too long:lol:
I used to be guilty of taking things to heart thinking I knew the person who had replied to my thread was an awful geek or being a bitch just by their reply lol Yes I thought I was psychic
lolBut the truth is we all have off days we all have down days and when some of us are on down days others are on happy days ( Not the show)
The one thing I can say is until you meet the geek face to face dont make quick decisions about what they are like :idea:
Because you WILL find the reply doesnt always reflect a persons true character :hug:
Ok what I am trying to say is if We can think nice thing about each and every geek I dont think we would have any problems xxxxxxxx
Kim Lawless
Grande Dame of the Brazilian Wax for Men and Women
I think that it comes down to one simple thing. There are nice people in the world and there are arsey people on the world. They are probably no different on a forum than they are dealing with people in real life.
People who are sly in real life are sly on forums
People who are shy in real life are shy on forums
Trouble makers in real life are trouble makers on forums
Sensitive people in real life are sensitive on forums
Jelaous people in real life are jealous on forums
Funny people in real life are funny on forums
Etc Etc Etc
That's no excuse for rudeness though. xxx
People who are sly in real life are sly on forums
People who are shy in real life are shy on forums
Trouble makers in real life are trouble makers on forums
Sensitive people in real life are sensitive on forums
Jelaous people in real life are jealous on forums
Funny people in real life are funny on forums
Etc Etc Etc
That's no excuse for rudeness though. xxx
blossom
Well-Known Member
You are very right here.
Especially that last bit about rudeness. Again, everyone's idea of rudeness will be slightly different but basically it's no good just "being yourself" to the point of not caring how your words will affect others.
People who just post, think to themselves "well that's how I feel, if someone is offended then it must just be them being sensitive," are probably the type of people who get people's backs up face to face as well. Unless it is their "computer persona" talking.
Edit to add: it is the minority though. On this site, most folks are lovely.
Snugglepuss
Well-Known Member
I agree with Kimmi and Blossom :hug:
A while ago, I had a run in with a person (not a regular geek) who was publicly rude to me - the thread has since been deleted (which I'm pleased about) but it left me with no confidence in posting anymore!
I was always wary of what I posted, but I now feel that my input is no longer valued (albeit by this one person iykwim) and that is why it is so important that you try and word your posts in a positive and constructive manner.
If there is anything personal to be said (which is negative) then IMHO it should be posted in a PM and dealt with out of the public domain! Unless of course it is constructive criticism or feedback, then it is more beneficial to be seen in the public domain :hug:.
Our perception of what has been written will always be our own reality!
Therefore, both the person writing and the person responding to a thread/post, need to take into account that the words they write, may or may not be taken in the right way - dunno if that makes sense?
Anyhoo, as Blossom said, the majority of geeks on here are fab :green::hug: Happy geeking folks xxx
A while ago, I had a run in with a person (not a regular geek) who was publicly rude to me - the thread has since been deleted (which I'm pleased about) but it left me with no confidence in posting anymore!
I was always wary of what I posted, but I now feel that my input is no longer valued (albeit by this one person iykwim) and that is why it is so important that you try and word your posts in a positive and constructive manner.
If there is anything personal to be said (which is negative) then IMHO it should be posted in a PM and dealt with out of the public domain! Unless of course it is constructive criticism or feedback, then it is more beneficial to be seen in the public domain :hug:.
Our perception of what has been written will always be our own reality!
Therefore, both the person writing and the person responding to a thread/post, need to take into account that the words they write, may or may not be taken in the right way - dunno if that makes sense?
Anyhoo, as Blossom said, the majority of geeks on here are fab :green::hug: Happy geeking folks xxx
I think you've overgeneralised here. People tend to behave in a particular way in a particular context and their behaviours tend to vary with the context.
Forums in general or this one in particular are a context and people will tend to have different behaviours on here than in another context.
The other variable that you need to throw in is range of vocabulary and writing competence. we all have differing levels of writing competence and range of vocabulary and because of that some people may express themselves differently in writing as they would face to face.
I'm with Lellipop on this one - don't judge by the posts......though if an unerring pattern of bitchiness/nastiness shows you can make a good guess
Mike
Very true.
Your point about pming negative feedback is a good one though sometimes it's challenging to define positive and negative. I've seen what i considered positive feedback slated and similarly I've seen negative stuff tolerated because the majority agreed, so it can be quite difficult.
I subscribe to the belief that there is no failure, only feedback and even the most negative of feedback can be turned to a positive (like - well I probably won't pay much heed to that person's opinion on that subject as we clearly think very differently).
Mike
Gilly T
Well-Known Member
I am obsessed with this site at the moment and find myself curious at some of the titles and MUST read on.. however, I have to agree with above. As a new Geek some of the tone and replies I have read have put me off posting for fear of offending or appearing ignorant or stupid.
It sometimes sounds almost as if people have lost patience with people iykwim
I am obsessed with this site at the moment and find myself curious at some of the titles and MUST read on.. however, I have to agree with above. As a new Geek some of the tone and replies I have read have put me off posting for fear of offending or appearing ignorant or stupid.
It sometimes sounds almost as if people have lost patience with people iykwim
I think it is reasonable to expect a newbie to read the FAQ (standard for most if not all forums) before asking a question and to make the title useful so that people can choose to read and respond or not.
That will usually avoid most issues.
In general though there are no stupid questions and the point of this forum is to help each other.
If you get slated, rather than disappear I would strongly encourage you to find out what you did wrong (if anything) and learn from it.
Keep asking questions
Mike
ValencianNails
Positivity rules!
I think that some have forgotten why we're here on this site, it's primarily to learn from each other re our chosen trades/businesses, therefore, if someone asks the question (for example) "what does L&P mean?" and someone else replies with "liquid and powder." are they wrong for not flowering up their reply? Should they have to say "liquid and powder sweetcheeks :hug:" ???
Sometimes we can give a reply which only requires a minimal amount of words, to some members this can come across as being 'sharp' or 'blunt', I disagree and think that providing the member receives the correct answer then it's all that matters, providing the person responding isn't rude (which 99.9% aren't).
What I do think is off putting to quite a few members, who don't post as much as they used to, is the general attitude of 'some' whose behaviour/replies only seem to rile up members, perhaps it's those people who should be reading this thread and giving their input?
Sometimes we can give a reply which only requires a minimal amount of words, to some members this can come across as being 'sharp' or 'blunt', I disagree and think that providing the member receives the correct answer then it's all that matters, providing the person responding isn't rude (which 99.9% aren't).
I know quite a few of our members off-site and believe me when I tell you that they don't behave any differently to how they do on here with their replies and general behaviour.mikem said:
What I do think is off putting to quite a few members, who don't post as much as they used to, is the general attitude of 'some' whose behaviour/replies only seem to rile up members, perhaps it's those people who should be reading this thread and giving their input?
I promise never to call anyone sweetcheeks. The ' you didn't flower it up so you obviously hate me' stance bugs me as well.
I agree that there are many people who will behave consistently across contexts. It goes back to the point about would you say what you just wrote to someone's face. I would doubt that some of the more negative comments that you have had to moderate on in your time would have been said face to face and that's where the context impacts.
I don't think you'll get your wish on the last point because again in general they wouldn't see the need to read this thread and will be wondering what everyone is blathering on about.......
Mike
Gilly T
Well-Known Member
I think it is reasonable to expect a newbie to read the FAQ (standard for most if not all forums) before asking a question and to make the title useful so that people can choose to read and respond or not.
That will usually avoid most issues.
In general though there are no stupid questions and the point of this forum is to help each other.
If you get slated, rather than disappear I would strongly encourage you to find out what you did wrong (if anything) and learn from it.
Keep asking questions
Mike
I most definitely always search for content before posting anything on here because I don't want to waste mine or anyone else's time if the topic has already been raised/discussed.
I also feel that Kim is right in her saying about different people and how they are in life. And the fact that Carl/Joanne say we do all have crappy days and may not always post to the full extent of our capacities.
What really gets me annoyed at the moment is the fact that many of us who have posted for quite some time DO feel as though our every word is being psychoanalised.
We're just people here to help each other in work and in life.
You meet me.....you'll believe me.
I am the person that posts here and don't mince my words but that doesn't mean to say I do it with any intention of upsetting anyone.
Quite the opposite in fact.
So maybe this answers Sandis question a little?
