Should wheelchair users get priority over a baby in a pushchair?

[VHunter]

I feel for both sides....

A friend of the famly, who is like a father to me & gave me away at my wedding, is wheelchair bound......
I have witnessed his struggles on many occasions...

Just over 5yrs ago when I lived in the city, I wa on the bus with my eldest (at the time she was only just 2yrs old) and my youngest - then 2mths old..
On the bus. I had to fold up her carriage and hold her in my lap. At one point, the bus stopped suddenly. I had no choice but to clutch my infant and at a bar with my free hand to keep from toppling into the aisle.
Meanwhile, my poor 2yr old was tossed and suffered a scrape on her nose and bruises. Luckily, nothing worse.

The point I want to make is that there should be no set priority BUT I do feel that 1st come /1st serve would be more fair to all concerned.
I waited many many many times for a bus with space, with and without a carriage.. busses are just full sometimes.
Yes I am thankful for my limbs every day.
But I do also feel that there is reverse dicrimination sometimes. My father ALWAYS refuses 'special' treatment. He wants equality in every way.
I think we will see examples of every kind on this subject, and situations that have unfairly wronged either side.

And note, while not applicable in all cases, many users of chairs can shift to a bus seat and collapse their chair easier than a buggy. My Dad can.
And he wouldn't mind either. He's paraplegic. And his collapsed chair takes less room than a collapsed baby carriage.

Food for thought.

 

[High Hopes]

I did wonder if that particular bus driver that was mentioned might have been a bit of a jobsworth when it comes to "health & schmafety"...

I do love those sorts of people

 

[Ruth Mills]

I feel for both sides....

A friend of the famly, who is like a father to me & gave me away at my wedding, is wheelchair bound......
I have witnessed his struggles on many occasions...

Just over 5yrs ago when I lived in the city, I wa on the bus with my eldest (at the time she was only just 2yrs old) and my youngest - then 2mths old..
On the bus. I had to fold up her carriage and hold her in my lap. At one point, the bus stopped suddenly. I had no choice but to clutch my infant and at a bar with my free hand to keep from toppling into the aisle.
Meanwhile, my poor 2yr old was tossed and suffered a scrape on her nose and bruises. Luckily, nothing worse.

The point I want to make is that there should be no set priority BUT I do feel that 1st come /1st serve would be more fair to all concerned.
I waited many many many times for a bus with space, with and without a carriage.. busses are just full sometimes.
Yes I am thankful for my limbs every day.
But I do also feel that there is reverse dicrimination sometimes. My father ALWAYS refuses 'special' treatment. He wants equality in every way.
I think we will see examples of every kind on this subject, and situations that have unfairly wronged either side.

And note, while not applicable in all cases, many users of chairs can shift to a bus seat and collapse their chair easier than a buggy. My Dad can.
And he wouldn't mind either. He's paraplegic. And his collapsed chair takes less room than a collapsed baby carriage.

Food for thought.

I know what you mean; I think it would be naiive to rule absolutely in either direction; it's far safer to judge each case on its individual circumstances.

For example, Sonia would certainly not be able to transfer onto a standard bus seat; these days she's even having difficulty transferring from her chair into the car. But other people, albeit also wheelchair users, might have a far greater level of mobility in terms of being able to transfer - and it would be kind of them to offer to do so in the case of a baby in a pram/pushchair or another disabled person in a wheelchair needing the space on the bus.

However, it's generally not possible for electric wheelchairs to be folded up so readily; so if a person was in an electric wheelchair and needed to travel on the bus, then the wheelchair space would be a necessity for them.

 

[Ruth Mills]

I do love those sorts of people

And I love to hate them :green:

If something can be done (and it's good for it to be done) and anybody with a bit of common sense can see there's pretty much no risk involved, then I say do it, even if the paperwork might suggest otherwise!!!

 

[brittone05]

I find it difficult to base an opinion on this only because my gran brought me up to always give up my seat on the bus for any other person who would benefit from my space regardelss of anything else.

I have been on the bus with my children - in prams both normal carry cots and twin buggies and have always folded them up and held my children to allow others use my space - be them wheelchair users, eldery users and so on.

To think that I would not fold up my buggy for a wheelchair user to access the bus (what I feel is a very vital service for wheelchair users given that for years the transport services have discriminated against those who are not able to simply step aboard a bus)that not only would my gran feel she had failed in teaching me basic respect for others.

 

[Lady_Nightshade]

The buses that run by me actually have quite large spaces big enough for one wheelchair and one pram on either side of the bus.

Imo it shouldnt be a wheelchair or pram discusion it should be a child of between 3-7 sitting on a seat of their own instead of their mothers lap on a crowded bus when an elderly/pregnant/another person who could do with sitting down is left standing discusion.

But that could stem from when I was a child, if the bus was crowded I couldnt sit on a seat of my own it was my mothers lap.

:hug:

 

[nikinoodle]

my solution to this would have been to have asked the bus driver for some help with my buggy, or indeed anyone else in the queue. When push comes to shove, although yes it would be difficult, you are able to sit on a seat on the bus with your children. I dont understand why it has to be pushchair or wheel chair. Maybe thats just me being naive but i would be shocked if i asked someone in the queue to help me onto the bus with my buggy and they turned round and said no.

This wouldn't of been an option unfortunatly this time purely because my liitle girl was only a couple of days old, so to try and hold a newborn/11 month old & double pushchair would of been quite un-achievable, also it kind of disgusted me that not one person offered their help because I know if I saw ANYONE struggling I would not think twice to try and assist them, it just goes to show there is a lack of community now!!:irked: :hug:

 

[brittone05]

Niki - I have before today passed one of my children to a bus driver whilst I loaded my toddler and pram ontot he bus hehehe I am very hardfaced when it comes to enforcing a sense of community though as I was brought up that way by my wonderful Gran and she is certainly not backwards at coming forwards!

Our buses only have 2 spaces on them - one for prams and one which, although used by prams, has special fasteners for wheelchair users to secure thier chairs correctly.

It is strange today though ( my I sound old I am only 28 I swear!) as society no longer enforces basic decencies due to the fact we have spiralled into a crazy era of chavs and knife crime

 

[minky]

Hi, I do believe that wheelchair users do have uppermost priority ,
as they cannot get up and help themselves , and it must be so very hard to sit in one of those things all the time ,
as Ruth was saying Sonia had to wait at a bus stop and watch two buses go by because they had no wheelchair access in them for her ,

then Ruth had to go home by bus and fetch the car whilst Sonia waited at the bus stop on her own waiting for Ruth to fetch her
I can only imagine how Sonia must have felt that day.....

I don't wish to sound condescending ... so please don't take offence as none is intended ... and from looking at other posts you do say people comment on opening a business and having a baby ect...

But... leonnib ..... you may be dealing with a lot of inward stress at the moment, being heavily pregnant and also looking after your lovely little baby boy...
plus dealing with a newly opened business and all those worrying staff issues you had to deal with ...
and with all those preganancy hormones flooding your body you may possibly be ruminating a bit more than usual and subconsciously thinking about how you are going to cope getting on and off buses with your new baby and your little one
plus folding up a heavy pushchair ... also your leg must play you up at the moment with all the extra pregnancy weight ... so I can imagine how getting on and off a bus may be a source of stress and worry for you ,

I know you may not agree but pregnancy can turn our brains to mush sometimes, and we can say strange things dream strange things , and ponder over stuff that we wouldn't usually even bother with , and all this is quite usual during pregnancy

as you started this thread I think you can also close it if you choose
just ask the mods ,

But I don't think that you should stop posting just because of this thread ,
as you will find loads of good info on here for your new shop,
also I think it's quite an interesting thread, and its highlighting some interesting safety issues,
:hug: x minky

 

[Violet Star]

Minky you are always a woman of wise words.

I think it would be a hard struggle for a lady with a new born who was asleep in the pram to take out and fold up. But i think a child who is awake then yes wheelchair priority should be given.

 

[Ruth Mills]

then Ruth had to go home by bus and fetch the car whilst Sonia waited at the bus stop on her own waiting for Ruth to fetch her
I can only imagine how Sonia must have felt that day.....

Aye, but thankfully the last bus (that arrived about 5 minutes after the [non-accessible] bus I was on left) *did* have access, so Sonia got on it (on her own) and phoned me to say I didn't need to drive in to pick her up after all, but please could I wait for her at the bus stop instead... think I blogged about it at the time lol...

 

[minky]

Aye, but thankfully the last bus (that arrived about 5 minutes after the [non-accessible] bus I was on left) *did* have access, so Sonia got on it (on her own) and phoned me to say I didn't need to drive in to pick her up after all, but please could I wait for her at the bus stop instead... think I blogged about it at the time lol...

Oh well that was good then , I am so glad she didn't have to wait around , thank goodness for mobile phones at time like that
:hug: x minky

 

[Ruth Mills]

Oh well that was good then , I am so glad she didn't have to wait around , thank goodness for mobile phones at time like that
:hug: x minky

Aye, they are a godsend! Although I did get slightly soaked waiting for her at the bus stop, as it was raining a bit :green:

 

[Apex73]

Actually Ruth, I so agree with Minky, I continued to think about that awful incident long after i read this thread, I honestly cant blame you both for not wanting to risk it again. :hug:

but i thought i'd add my shillings worth

When mine were babies (really not long ago at all!), I sometimes had to get the two/three/four of us into town via the bus,
& to be honest, its hard.
But not as hard as not having mobility.

You have to practically beg/demand help at times, people can be unhelpful if given the choice. lol
I've passed my babies over the bus steering wheel to the bus driver, otherwise i couldnt have got on,
I've passed babies to random old ladies too, they love it though!

People just need to help eachother more.

& if someone needs extra space to get their wheelchair on, well we should flippin' well move, & that includes those of us pram-pushers.

 

[Ruth Mills]

Actually Ruth, I so agree with Minky, I continued to think about that awful incident long after i read this thread, I honestly cant blame you both for not wanting to risk it again. :hug:

but i thought i'd add my shillings worth

When mine were babies (really not long ago at all!), I sometimes had to get the two/three/four of us into town via the bus,
& to be honest, its hard.
But not as hard as not having mobility.

You have to practically beg/demand help at times, people can be unhelpful if given the choice. lol
I've passed my babies over the bus steering wheel to the bus driver, otherwise i couldnt have got on,
I've passed babies to random old ladies too, they love it though!

People just need to help eachother more.

& if someone needs extra space to get their wheelchair on, well we should flippin' well move, & that includes those of us pram-pushers.

Definitely, you're so right! It's like when Sonia and I first met, she'd come on the train herself (in a manual wheelchair) from Shrewsbury to Birmingham, to visit the mutual friend whose party we were both at when we met, nearly 6 years ago now...

But sadly her condition's deteriorated to the extent where that would be pretty much unthinkable now; she either needs her electric powerchair, or for me (or Debbie her carer) to push her in a manual chair. And she'd almost certainly not want to be going out on her own - not without Slobberdog to protect her at any rate!!!

 

[Teebster]

Just a quick reply to the original question. I am a mum and I have had two children under 3 in a double buggy and had to hold a new born, juggle a two and a half year old and fold down a double buggy to give access to someone wheelchair bound on public transport. I used a newborn sling as I was prepared for behaving safely and diligently with regard to both children and others around me. Difficult yes but with a seat to sit on absolutly fine and to be honest it would never have crossed my mind to not have given the space up to someone in a wheelchair who has no choice. I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if I am going over old ground.

Now my I am a mum of a teenage child who is very ill and wheelchair bound and most of the time housebound. To be perfectly honest I can not even understand how you can compare the two - there is no compairson. Due to my sons condition I could not use public transport for his safety but I have found getting him around on the very few occasions that I have tried to get out exhausting for all and virtually impossible. I understand that there are different needs of disability and that not everyones needs are the same but I have had to deal with people even refusing to move out of the way to let me get my son past so I have had to literally leave the shop because people refuse to let me pass them in a shop to access the till point (no I was not cue jumping, just trying to get past a family of 5 blocking and isle and they mocked my son and used offensive language because a said "excuse me can I get past please").

Its a difficult situation unless you have really walked both paths, but I know which I perferred - and there is no comparison at all please believe me. One is a disability, having children is not it is perfectly natural.

 

[angel fingers]

When mine were babies (really not long ago at all!), I sometimes had to get the two/three/four of us into town via the bus,
& to be honest, its hard.
But not as hard as not having mobility.

I fully agree.

i think sometimes its not that people wouldnt want to help though, its just that maybe they think a mum wouldnt be happy to have a stranger holding kids. i always ask if anyone wants a hand with the pushchair or bags first and then offer to help kiddies on.

 

[mercedes69]

So far no one has agreed with this statement. This is a ridiculous thread:evil:

You know the only thing that has rattled my cage about this thread is all your comments...you have been very rude to the thread starter and quite honestly there was no need to reply if you thought it so ridiculous.

To be honest it is an interesting thread and it has brought up some very valid points from both angles and luckily most of the replies have been very curteous in their replies

Luckily and as usual Ruth came in with some very good points to make and gave us an insight into life as a wheelchair user and what it must be like trying to contend with public transport. Therefore this was NOT a ridiculous thread...!!!!!!

Back in the day when double decker buses were about as useful for a pushchair or a wheelchair user as a chocolate bar in the African Desert...this wouldn't have been worth discussing as they were a complete nightmare to use anyway...the times I would ricochet down the aisle to a seat as the bus driver drove away at 100mph

But now there are lots of wheelchair/pushchair accessible buses around so it is a good discussion to make...who comes first...the chicken or the egg :lol:

I think there are a few points to this...
1) If you are on the bus already with a baby in a pushchair and a wheelchair user comes on...then yes put the pushchair down and hold the baby ( although I must admit very young babies being held in the arms on a bus???? Not a great safety issue is it???? )

2) Priority should be given to wheelchair users...but does that make the person with a pushchair less of a citizen and given no rights at all???? Should they have to stand at a bus stop and wait...should they maybe miss their last bus home?

Don't get me wrong...I have had 5 children and used public transport and I would always give my seat up for ANYONE less mobile than myself that goes without saying...
but I have also struggled lots of times with pushchairs...and been left at bus stops (not saying because of wheelchair users, more than likely other pushchair users lol )...so I know what that side of things is like too...

To be honest I think if you have to use public transport with a very young baby i.e a newborn then you shouldn't be made to put the pushchair down.
It should come down to a first come first served basis in that scenario ( perhaps a baby less than 4 weeks old ) but...I personally would still put the pushchair down...thats my personal thought!

Wheelchair users should have priority at other times and those people with pushchairs should be given help by good citizens!

We should all be able to use the buses in harmony...:lol:

* off topic slightly...but the prices of buses
For 2 adults it costs £5.40 to go a couple of miles into the local town...a taxi costs £4.30 for the same journey! So with my pushchair I go in a taxi and leave the buses to others anyway :lol:

 

[mercedes69]

Just a quick reply to the original question. I am a mum and I have had two children under 3 in a double buggy and had to hold a new born, juggle a two and a half year old and fold down a double buggy to give access to someone wheelchair bound on public transport. I used a newborn sling as I was prepared for behaving safely and diligently with regard to both children and others around me. Difficult yes but with a seat to sit on absolutly fine and to be honest it would never have crossed my mind to not have given the space up to someone in a wheelchair who has no choice. I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if I am going over old ground.

Now my I am a mum of a teenage child who is very ill and wheelchair bound and most of the time housebound. To be perfectly honest I can not even understand how you can compare the two - there is no compairson. Due to my sons condition I could not use public transport for his safety but I have found getting him around on the very few occasions that I have tried to get out exhausting for all and virtually impossible. I understand that there are different needs of disability and that not everyones needs are the same but I have had to deal with people even refusing to move out of the way to let me get my son past so I have had to literally leave the shop because people refuse to let me pass them in a shop to access the till point (no I was not cue jumping, just trying to get past a family of 5 blocking and isle and they mocked my son and used offensive language because a said "excuse me can I get past please").

Its a difficult situation unless you have really walked both paths, but I know which I perferred - and there is no comparison at all please believe me. One is a disability, having children is not it is perfectly natural.

That is just disgusting...I really don't know how anyone could be like that.
Some people are just so vile...

My mum has had to use a wheelchair a lot...electric and manual and fortunately never ever has she come across rude people and I never saw it when I pushed her around...everyone was always helpful.

I think my mouth would have got me in trouble if I had ever encountered anything like you have...

 

[Ruth Mills]

* off topic slightly...but the prices of buses
For 2 adults it costs £5.40 to go a couple of miles into the local town...a taxi costs £4.30 for the same journey! So with my pushchair I go in a taxi and leave the buses to others anyway :lol:

Aye we have found the same too. Would cost us at least 6 quid to get a return into town for the two of us; even factoring in the cost of parking, it's cheaper to drive!
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