Arguing with my sister over botox

[Whitewave]

I have what is known as a hemi facial spasm. In short it means I have a nerve above my eyebrow that misbehaves and makes the right side of my face and eye twitch periodically.

The only cure is an operation that could result in my losing my hearing or it can be controlled with botox.

As I now live overseas I no longer have the treatment, but when I lived in the UK I used to travel to London to see a neurologist who administered the botox within the NHS system.

In the waiting room waiting to see him were also people who suffered from excessive sweating, multiple sclerosis and dystonia, as well as people like me.

No disrespect to anyone here but there is no way I would have let anyone other than him administer 6 injections around my eye socket. Even my own GP who was incredibly well qualified wouldn't consider doing it for me. Accurate precision was imperative!

One time when I went to see him one of the injections resulted in profuse bleeding - it hurt like hell and I must say I was glad to be in the capable hands of a neurologist.

Just my thoughts folks.....

 

[waxed]

I agree totally, what would happen if a beauty therapist administered botox and they had a severe allergy and went into anaphaltic shock.????..

I did do a spell check but still not sure if i have spelt it right

xx

 

[Warwick Wendy]

ok ladies and even the boys..........

I have had botox in my forehead by a nurse whos a friend of mine.

I love it, it does wonders..........but

I want to know when it comes to the A&P of the facial muscles etc, what does a nurse know that's so different from a beauty therapist level 3?

I may be ripped to shreds here....... but please tell me the major difference, we can already do the majority of sticking needles in faces..electrolysis etc... can't we?

I know for a fact I could fill out the consultation form with you....numb the area with a swab of antiseptic cream... mark up the area of injections and stick it to you.........then charge you a £100 plus per area!! tell me........ What makes a nurse more qualified if we both got the relevant training?

x

 

[Kim Lawless]

ok ladies and even the boys..........

I have had botox in my forehead by a nurse whos a friend of mine.

I love it, it does wonders..........but

I want to know when it comes to the A&P of the facial muscles etc, what does a nurse know that's so different from a beauty therapist level 3?

I may be ripped to shreds here....... but please tell me the major difference, we can already do the majority of sticking needles in faces..electrolysis etc... can't we?

I know for a fact I could fill out the consultation form with you....numb the area with a swab of antiseptic cream... mark up the area of injections and stick it to you.........then charge you a £100 plus per area!! tell me........ What makes a nurse more qualified if we both got the relevant training?

x

I agree totally. I'm not condoning any and every beauty therapist being allowed to do it, but I don't see any problem if they have proper training.

After all, Harold Shipman was a doc.......

 

[Urban Geek]

This thread shows why beauty therapists don't get the credit they deserve. I think this is a case of beauty therapists knocking their own industry.

A well educated Level 3 beauty therapist with experience is just as well placed (with the necessary further training) to administer botox as a nurse, dentist or doctor.

 

[daisyl]

ok ladies and even the boys..........

I have had botox in my forehead by a nurse whos a friend of mine.

I love it, it does wonders..........but

I want to know when it comes to the A&P of the facial muscles etc, what does a nurse know that's so different from a beauty therapist level 3?

I may be ripped to shreds here....... but please tell me the major difference, we can already do the majority of sticking needles in faces..electrolysis etc... can't we?

I know for a fact I could fill out the consultation form with you....numb the area with a swab of antiseptic cream... mark up the area of injections and stick it to you.........then charge you a £100 plus per area!! tell me........ What makes a nurse more qualified if we both got the relevant training?

x

Simple - I am a Nurse Prescriber - huge difference! I have had 4 years ofMEDICAL training and 20 years medical experience. Not just A&P and facial muscle anatomy required! The very comment made demonstrate a lack of knowledge about Botox and its interpretations. I really mean no offense, however there are many inaccuracies cited here.

 

[Warwick Wendy]

Simple - I am a Nurse Prescriber - huge difference! I have had 4 years ofMEDICAL training and 20 years medical experience. Not just A&P and facial muscle anatomy required! The very comment made demonstrate a lack of knowledge about Botox and its interpretations. I really mean no offense, however there are many inaccuracies cited here.

No offense taken, it was why I asked the question But to be honest I don't see how 4 years of medical training and 20 years of medical experience is absolutely necessary for facial botox injections, Because Botox training is not included in those 4 years or 20 years training is it? No, it's a separate, training course. I know of people having bad reactions and botox going wrong when it was administered by a nurse. As I said if we were to both get the equal amount of Botox training (knowledge in Botox) We could both be as capable to perform this treatment. just my honest opinion.

 

[daisyl]

Hi Wendy

I understand what you mean when you say 'botox training is not covered in medical training'. I can see why you believe that - as a procedure in itself no - botox training is not covered.

However, when you train to administer botox, all your other medicaltraining and experience is taken into account - that is why the training is not for the lay person so to speak. I have beauty therapists working in my salon - all of who I respect greatly and I appreciate their knowledge and skills - no one is better than the other - however it is not in a beauty therapists remit the same way I wouldn't know one end of a wax pot from the other (scares the life out of me)!

A beauty therapist is simply not equipped to perform medical procedures such as this. If they so wish to - go out and get a medical degree. There is a lot of medical knowledge required when administering these products which you simply cannot learn on a botox training course. It is not labelled prescription only medicine for nothing.

Again - no offence meant XXX

 

[daisyl]

Just to add....

I don't for one second doubt there are bad botox treatments performed by nurses (I have seen them), and doctors (boy, I have seen them too), just as there are poor procedures performed by therapist. No-one industry is fool proof. Doesn't mean we all have to be tarred with the same brush though does it X

 

[gillian w]

I don't believe that nvq level 3 beauty anatomy is anything like the amount of anatomy a nurse learns.It was once but not anymore.
I think there is enough for beauty therapists to become proficient in without being allowed to inject people.
Of course some are going to be good at it and take care and do everything they should be doing properly but what about those that will just jump on the bandwagon for the money.
Some therapists can't even perform a wax service very well let alone anything else and we all know the huge differences in training.
At least to be able to take a nursing course you have to have a good standard of education in the first place which you now don't to do a beauty course.
How ever will it be regulated if any level 3 therapists are allowed to do it.

 

[Warwick Wendy]

Hi Wendy

I understand what you mean when you say 'botox training is not covered in medical training'. I can see why you believe that - as a procedure in itself no - botox training is not covered.

However, when you train to administer botox, all your other medicaltraining and experience is taken into account - that is why the training is not for the lay person so to speak. I have beauty therapists working in my salon - all of who I respect greatly and I appreciate their knowledge and skills - no one is better than the other - however it is not in a beauty therapists remit the same way I wouldn't know one end of a wax pot from the other (scares the life out of me)!

A beauty therapist is simply not equipped to perform medical procedures such as this. If they so wish to - go out and get a medical degree. There is a lot of medical knowledge required when administering these products which you simply cannot learn on a botox training course. It is not labelled prescription only medicine for nothing.

Again - no offence meant XXX

Daisyl, Thankyou for answering the questions I had but mostly for doing so in a professional manner, Point taken on the differences

x

 

[botoxwales]

Hi guys i'm speaking to my sister who lives in the uk and she says if you are level 3 beauty therapist you can train to administer botox.

As far as I was aware you have to have a medical qualifications apparently my sister has botox done by a beauty therapist who doesn't seem to have any medical training

I am so confused

Thanks

Angela

AVOID AVOID AVOID.

A reputable company will only offer botox training to qualified medical professionals. Also, NOONE will insure a non-medical professional.

You're sister is taking a HUGE risk here.

 

[sxi_beautician]

There is a woman just up the road from me who has her own salon and does botox, she only does nails though and botox as its a nail studio, so shes doing botox on people when she obviously doesnt have proper knowledge of the skin or any medical background!

 

[daisyl]

There is a woman just up the road from me who has her own salon and does botox, she only does nails though and botox as its a nail studio, so shes doing botox on people when she obviously doesnt have proper knowledge of the skin or any medical background!

If this is the case - then she is working illegally. God help her if any complications ever arise (and her clients). I reiterate, botox is a PRESCRIPTION ONLY MEDICINE! Botox and its administration simply has to be taken seriously. It is a medical procedure. I would question where she is getting her supplies from. If reported, she would end up in court or worse. She will also not have insurance. AVOID

 

[eden5995]

The biggest concern with this would be that a Beauty Therapist would be unable to purchase the Botox (well that was my salon's understanding. We have a visiting Specialist Doctor come in to administer Botox) From what our Dr has stated, NO beauty therapist or even a nurse should be able to purchase the Botox. And neither should they. However, we are in Australia so the regulations maybe more relaxed where you are??! Scary!!

 

[botoxwales]

The biggest concern with this would be that a Beauty Therapist would be unable to purchase the Botox (well that was my salon's understanding. We have a visiting Specialist Doctor come in to administer Botox) From what our Dr has stated, NO beauty therapist or even a nurse should be able to purchase the Botox. And neither should they. However, we are in Australia so the regulations maybe more relaxed where you are??! Scary!!

In the UK, only a doctor or nurse prescriber can prescribe and buy it. However, a suitably trained nurse can inject it.

All of our customers are initially referred to our doctor who will determine suitability. The actual treatment is then done by a nurse.

To be honest, a nurse is always going to be better at injecting than a doctor who never normally do injections !

 

[essentia]

I think this is where it is absolutely essential that the industry gets regulated. Unfortunatlely the title 'Beautician' or 'beauty therapist' still conjours up the idea that we are a bit thick and is the job that the academically challanged gets pushed into.

I think BT should be able to inject if they are well trained - much safer than therapists being on the fringes. I do however think a Doctor should prescribe though.

I find it odd that I can beome a foot health practitioner with doing home learn theory and 2 weeks practical experience and then apply for a one day local anaesthetic course but us as therapists who have trained full time are still in this grey area. I had to get approval from my insurance company for using topical anaesthetic for my red vein clients but it was not without first seeking expert advice from their panel. Is it not time we give credit to suitably qualified and professional therapists and therefore the status they deserve?

 

[daisyl]

I think this is where it is absolutely essential that the industry gets regulated. Unfortunatlely the title 'Beautician' or 'beauty therapist' still conjours up the idea that we are a bit thick and is the job that the academically challanged gets pushed into.

I think BT should be able to inject if they are well trained - much safer than therapists being on the fringes. I do however think a Doctor should prescribe though.

I find it odd that I can beome a foot health practitioner with doing home learn theory and 2 weeks practical experience and then apply for a one day local anaesthetic course but us as therapists who have trained full time are still in this grey area. I had to get approval from my insurance company for using topical anaesthetic for my red vein clients but it was not without first seeking expert advice from their panel. Is it not time we give credit to suitably qualified and professional therapists and therefore the status they deserve?

A beauty therapist is not suitable qualified - this does not in any way refer to bt's as being thick - just not suitably qualified - how can they be. They are not medically qualified - simple as that! This displays a total and complete lack of understanding about injectable procedures. I am horrified that anyone would think it acceptable for anyone without adequate medical qualifications could pick up a needle and syringe and perform these medical procedures.

I am a nurse prescriber, and have years of experience in this field. I worked extremely hard to gain my qualifications and knowledge. I would not wish to extract teeth - not in my remit or qualifications, or would I desire to do nail enhancements - again not in my scope of practice. Tighter regulation cannot come soon enough in this industry, which is hopefully finally going the right way! To suggest it is acceptable for beauty therapists to undertake these procedures is absolutely ridiculous. I have to undertake a thorough medical assessment, including a comprehensive history and pharmacological assessment and diagnosis (in my capacity as a prescriber) - no beauty therapist is in any way qualified to make that assessment - no argument!

 

[essentia]

I am a nurse prescriber, and have years of experience in this field. I worked extremely hard to gain my qualifications and knowledge. I would not wish to extract teeth - not in my remit or qualifications, or would I desire to do nail enhancements - again not in my scope of practice. Tighter regulation cannot come soon enough in this industry, which is hopefully finally going the right way! To suggest it is acceptable for beauty therapists to undertake these procedures is absolutely ridiculous. I have to undertake a thorough medical assessment, including a comprehensive history and pharmacological assessment and diagnosis (in my capacity as a prescriber) - no beauty therapist is in any way qualified to make that assessment - no argument!

Yes exactly - I do not think BT should prescribe - I did say that already. However I do not see the problem with suitably trained therapists being able to deliver the treatment. There are one day courses to do venepuncture, local anaesthesia (as I mentioned) and perform cannulation. I do not see why it cannot be suitable for those with the right qualifications and background to be able to do it in the right setting.

 

[daisyl]

Yes exactly - I do not think BT should prescribe - I did say that already. However I do not see the problem with suitably trained therapists being able to deliver the treatment. There are one day courses to do venepuncture, local anaesthesia (as I mentioned) and perform cannulation. I do not see why it cannot be suitable for those with the right qualifications and background to be able to do it in the right setting.

Its against the law! We are talking about prescription medicines. No medical practitioner in their right mind would allow non medical professionals to administer injectable prescription medication! There is no way I would be pepared to risk my registration. I would be accountable. Its about managing the risks. Beauty therapists simply do not have the 'right qualifications'. What would you do in the event of complications - how would you manage those risks? You couldn't. In no way is that meant to be detrimental - you are just not qualified! Trust me. The only 'right' training would be to go out and get a medical degree. That is why the law, is the law! X