Arguing with my sister over botox

[angelina221]

Luckily as this doctor is also an anaethetist, he is used to giving injections day in and day out.
So contrary to what people believe, doctors do one day course too........now how's about that!


if he is an anaesthestist then he surely only has to adapt his knowledge to this specific drug.....

Yes this is my point. He is an anaesthetist so he is used to giving injections which i am glad about. It's the other doctors who don't give injections on a daily basis, or don't give them at all, that worries me!

 

[beautyathome]

I actually think that with full and proper training, I would prefer a beauty therapist as they have more of an aesthetic eye. I wouldn't want a dentist to do it.

I've seen plenty of bad Botox and Filler jobs by docs, so just becasue they are qualified, doesn't make them good.

I used to work in a salon where the Botox doctor used to be out of the door and in his car, before his last client had put her coat on. Only in it for the money so don't kid yourselves otherwise.xxx

i would have to agree!!! I think if a beauty therapist did something like this they would take more care etc...! I heard that they train people around here somewhere my friend told me months ago to do it but i said no as i thought you had to be a doctor to be able to do this etc... i wouldn't have someone just out of college do this but if they have had a lot of years in the industry 'experience' and they had the correct training etc.. i probably would let them inject me! that's my opinion though

 

[Donny88]

This is the thread about leslie ash program and it raises some good points

http://www.salongeek.com/skin-geek/80608-leslie-ash.html

But to be honest - just because someone is medically trained - doesn't make them 'better' or more knowledgable than a beauty therapist.

Take electrolysis, IPL, bio skin jetting or permanent make-up - would you only go to a medically trained person for these invasive - potentially scarring treatments? Why not? surely a beauty therapist is not medically qualified to carry out these treatments - reguardless of the fact they should/would have extensive knowledge of the skin, muscles, hormone system, nervous system and above all - a high level of skill. A medical professional may not fully be trained in the above, like a nurse (I have had rough nurses bruise me to bits for blood taking) .

I think everyone should meet a criteria - to carry out these treatments medical or not. If you don't meet it - you can't do it.

xx

I had to complete an assignment on this very matter whilst doing my foundation degree. It is shocking that people can train in it by doing a days training. I might get different views on this, but i believe if a beauty therapist is willing to achieve a satisfactory level of education which allows them to practice these treatments. Basically not just a day course, but even aslong as a years course. I am not saying every therapist should do it, but if there was an qualification which allowed this, then I wouldnt be against it. Of course there would have to be great investigation and research etc.

 

[daisyl]

The fundamental point here is that these are MEDICAL PROCEDURES. A bt would not be performing surgery with 'additional training' thrown in!

A bt is in no way qualified to perform medical cosmetic procedures. In the case of botox (prescription only) - the patient must be assessed by a doctor or nurse prescriber. The public have no protection from bt's performing these treatments, and in the event of complications the medical profession are left to deal with the aftermath. (Believe me, I have seen a few). To suggest all is needed is an aesthetic eye is ridiculous.

 

[daisyl]

I had to complete an assignment on this very matter whilst doing my foundation degree. It is shocking that people can train in it by doing a days training. I might get different views on this, but i believe if a beauty therapist is willing to achieve a satisfactory level of education which allows them to practice these treatments. Basically not just a day course, but even aslong as a years course. I am not saying every therapist should do it, but if there was an qualification which allowed this, then I wouldnt be against it. Of course there would have to be great investigation and research etc.

There is a qualification - its called a Dr or Nurse! Nothing less.

 

[Donny88]

There is a qualification - its called a Dr or Nurse! Nothing less.

Dont get me wrong, I agree and understand with what you are saying. I am not causing an arguement here, just stating my opinion but what about therapists who have worked in the industry for years, and have deep anatomy and physiology and ageing knowledge, some have more knowledge than some nurses. If you read above posts, you will see that I am not saying beauty therapists should be let loose tomorrow, but given the chance there should be the option to take an advanced course (similiar to a nurse) to help them learn the correct skills.

There is always going to be arguments about this, and there are always going to back street salons giving therapists a bad name, and giving even worse treatments!

 

[SusanEvian]

The fundamental point here is that these are MEDICAL PROCEDURES. A bt would not be performing surgery with 'additional training' thrown in!

A bt is in no way qualified to perform medical cosmetic procedures. In the case of botox (prescription only) - the patient must be assessed by a doctor or nurse prescriber. The public have no protection from bt's performing these treatments, and in the event of complications the medical profession are left to deal with the aftermath. (Believe me, I have seen a few). To suggest all is needed is an aesthetic eye is ridiculous.

If you trust some of these nurses, then good luck. The courses they bang on about and their skill.

Go down to your local Hospital or your GP practice, the rather large framed lady is an RGN in mine, she struggles with taking your blood pressure, and a few other things. She can go on the 1 day course and do botox? no thanks.

I would not have a Nurse touch me, but that's up to me.

Su x

 

[samlamb]

If you trust some of these nurses, then good luck. The courses they bang on about and their skill.

Go down to your local Hospital or your GP practice, the rather large framed lady is an RGN in mine, she struggles with taking your blood pressure, and a few other things. She can go on the 1 day course and do botox? no thanks.

I would not have a Nurse touch me, but that's up to me.

Su x

Good grief! The difference between that nurse and me (level 3/4 qualified BT) is that she has had years of MEDICAL training and education.I have not. Some of the B Therapists I know who finished their level 3 could not complete a basic massage never mind administer botox into someones face.:suprised:

 

[missfemale]

thats crazy cant believe it!!!! defo only doctor or surgeons should be allowed do it

 

[SusanEvian]

thats crazy cant believe it!!!! defo only doctor or surgeons should be allowed do it

Yes I agree, "The Lamb" missed the point, hey ho.

Su x

 

[Velveteen]

I think she's one of the few who get it, actually.

What really worries me is that there are people who have no exposure to medical training or clinical settings who are advocating that BTs undertake a task that is way beyond any training they are ever likely to experience in an NVQ3 or anything else for that matter.

Just because a cosmetic procedure looks easy and earns a few quid for the medical profession doesn't mean it's good for the beauty profession.

 

[samlamb]

Yes I agree, "The Lamb" missed the point, hey ho.

Su x

Hi Sue, I think you are missing my point! Your nurse, regardless of her large frame,has undertaken years of medical training.She has had years and years of learning,training,MEDICAL education and more. You can not surely compare that to the NVQ / VTCT education of a beauty therapist. Can you?As a therapist you have learned a certain degree of A&P but it is incomparable to that of a nurse or a Dr.

 

[SusanEvian]

My choice would be a Dr or Surgeon.................... no one else. BT is not even in my reply or mentioned.

That fumbling nurse is a no no for me.

Su x

 

[samlamb]

My choice would be a Dr or Surgeon.................... no one else. BT is not even in my reply or mentioned.

That fumbling nurse is a no no for me.

Su x

This whole thread is about beauty therapists being alowed to administer botox/fillers. You are stating you would not allow a nurse to do this and I am trying to explain that a nurse has many years of education etc etc which would make them extremely qualified to administer botox.And be good at it. There will be times when nurses, AND Drs may not give good results but that is the case in any profession. I feel a beauty therapist may give far more bad (and dangerous) results than good.This is because beauty therapists are in no way medically trained.

 

[Rockateer]

would you let a BT take your bloods???
answer:NO

one may say "sure it looks easy, just find a vein stick it in "

but as many have pointed out some QUALIFIED MEDICAL nurses struggle to do this and an outsider may 'think' this to be a basic task so why why why would we allow a BT *** us with botox for an aesthetically pleasing effect????

also read this

:
BOTOX® Cosmetic may cause serious side effects that can be life threatening. Call your doctor or get medical help right away if you have any of these problems any time (hours to weeks) after injection of BOTOX® Cosmetic:

• Problems swallowing, speaking, or breathing, due to weakening of associated muscles,can be severe and result in loss of life. You are at the highest risk if these problems are pre-existing before injection. Swallowing problems may last for several months.
• Spread of toxin effects. The effect of botulinum toxin may affect areas away from the injection site and cause serious symptoms including: loss of strength and all-over muscle weakness, double vision, blurred vision and drooping eyelids, hoarseness or change or loss of voice (dysphonia), trouble saying words clearly (dysarthria), loss of bladder control, trouble breathing, trouble swallowing.

can BT's deal with this ?????????
what would we even say in answer to that

its madness to compare us to nurses

 

[waxed]

Hi geeks as I started this post just wanted to update you all that i have spoken to my sister who has recently told me that she now has droopy eyelids......

Im not sure why this would happen but it has put me off slightly


Thanks

angela

 

[Velveteen]

This is such a valuable discussion because the topic has far reaching connotations for us all. And it's not just Botox that should be in the firing line. It's other treatments as well such as deep facial peels, tooth whitening and laser therapy that aren't given due consideration and should be. For a start, a lot of people think it's legal to perform the first two and do so when in fact it's not and the consequences for non medical practitioners (in Australia or the UK) who do so are very serious.

can BT's deal with this ?????????

My question would be, would BTs want to? In truth, if all the facts were put in front of them, I believe the vast majority would not. Unfortunately, it's our culture that promotes Botox as being easy, harmless and lucrative.

its madness to compare us to nurses

Yes, because our work is so different.

just wanted to update you all that i have spoken to my sister who has recently told me that she now has droopy eyelids......

Im not sure why this would happen but it has put me off slightly

Case in point. Could you remedy this or answer this question if you had to without Googling?

 

[SusanEvian]

would you let a BT take your bloods???
answer:NO

one may say "sure it looks easy, just find a vein stick it in "

but as many have pointed out some QUALIFIED MEDICAL nurses struggle to do this and an outsider may 'think' this to be a basic task so why why why would we allow a BT *** us with botox for an aesthetically pleasing effect????

also read this

:
BOTOX® Cosmetic may cause serious side effects that can be life threatening. Call your doctor or get medical help right away if you have any of these problems any time (hours to weeks) after injection of BOTOX® Cosmetic:

• Problems swallowing, speaking, or breathing, due to weakening of associated muscles,can be severe and result in loss of life. You are at the highest risk if these problems are pre-existing before injection. Swallowing problems may last for several months.
• Spread of toxin effects. The effect of botulinum toxin may affect areas away from the injection site and cause serious symptoms including: loss of strength and all-over muscle weakness, double vision, blurred vision and drooping eyelids, hoarseness or change or loss of voice (dysphonia), trouble saying words clearly (dysarthria), loss of bladder control, trouble breathing, trouble swallowing.

can BT's deal with this ?????????
what would we even say in answer to that

its madness to compare us to nurses

When you go to have your blood taken its rarely a nurse, you do not need to be a nurse to take bloods and stick a needle in a vein... You can qualify as a healthcare assistant to do this, this has nothing to do with botox, but your wrongful judgement of taking blood.

And just for you, Healthcare Assistant Career Guide - Healthcare & Pharmaceutical Jobs

Su xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Velveteen]

When you go to have your blood taken its rarely a nurse

That's actually not correct.
The type of worker you get depends on the setting.

Most practices install registered nurses in their rooms as is required by legislation (UK/Aus are the same) and, of course, you wouldn't get a Health Care Assistant putting in or drawing blood from a central line. Mind you, it is the NHS we're talking about....(joke)

The link you provided was a very general overview for job seekers and does not outline the education a health care assistant needs to undertake before being able to take blood. And it's not meant to as it's an advertorial not a prospectus.

Anyone can put a needle in a vein and draw or inject - after all, a million heroin addicts can't be wrong. But it takes particular training for a particular setting done in the right way and that's what we're talking about here.

 

[SusanEvian]

That's actually not correct.
The type of worker you get depends on the setting.

Most practices install registered nurses in their rooms as is required by legislation (UK/Aus are the same) and, of course, you wouldn't get a Health Care Assistant putting in or drawing blood from a central line. Mind you, it is the NHS we're talking about....(joke)

The link you provided was a very general overview for job seekers and does not outline the education a health care assistant needs to undertake before being able to take blood. And it's not meant to as it's an advertorial not a prospectus.

Anyone can put a needle in a vein and draw or inject - after all, a million heroin addicts can't be wrong. But it takes particular training for a particular setting done in the right way and that's what we're talking about here.

you obviously don't understand how large UK Hospitals work, I will say it again and I am 100% positive you do not need to be a nurse to take blood. Is that OK with you?

Su x